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2/01/2013 8:40 am  #1


A different perspective

I promise, this will be my last big post about the Everhart vs. Ferry debate. Feel free to pick it apart and I promise to be respectful of opinions and fair arguments, and I will clarify anything that does not seem understandable.

I'm Jim Ferry. I've been hired because the AD at Duquesne says I am the coach who can bring Duquesne basketball to the next level. I'm going into a good situation, as far as coaching changes go, from a program perspective. The facilities are good, the A-10 is a great conference, and the program has been winning for the past couple of seasons. There are some decent returning players - maybe no stars or guys who fit my system perfectly, but I'm being hired to build to the next level for the long haul.

On the negative side, the AD has handled the firing and hiring process poorly. A popular coach has been let go, which has no doubt rankled some of the alumni and fans. The guy won, the guy did a lot of positive things to raise the visibility of the program, and even if I think I'm bringing something better to the table, I have to realize that my first year is not going to be great and I have to win some folks over in other ways.

So what to I do?
Hire a good staff. Check.
Have a good sit-down with the returning players to see what I have, buy-in wise. I'm sure he did that.
Do the best recruiting job I can to address short term needs. Check.
Start working on some longer-term recruits. Check.
Evaluate the talent I have in practice and in games. I'm sure he's doing that.
Fix what I don't like in practice. According to Ferry's own words, he's not doing that.
Build the confidence of my team as the season goes forward. When you play the blame game in the press, you're not doing that.
Find a way to win a couple games. Early part of the season, check. Since we played mighty LALA, complete fail.
Find a way to keep the team competitive. See the previous answer.
Be the leader the program needs. Be out front with how hard you have the team working, how much effort is going into recruiting players, how you have guys focusing on improving their weakness. Ouch. Too much Nee-speak.


Do I think Jim Ferry can win here? I don't have any evidence to suggest he will. He's done well at much smaller programs in much smaller conferences against much less competition, but now he has to translate his skills to this level. A-10 conference play alone is a beast. The coaches are better, the players are better, and most of the home courts are brutal (wait until he sees Olean).


Do I want him to win here? Yes. Unqualified yes.


Do I wish the Everhart bashing would stop? I don't think there's any reason it should have ever started.


When RE came here, he didn't have the facilities that we have now. Part of the reason Ferry has those facilities now is because of Everhart's success. People wouldn't have been so willing to give money if we continued to be college basketball's potter's field. We didn't play the kind of schedule we played under Ron. He took on BC, Duke, Arizona, and other top-level programs. He brought back a traditional rival in Penn State. He got us involved in a preseason tournament that ended up giving Ferry three good home games. He coached players who will be inducted into our HOF. Been a long time since a men's basketball player was picked for that.


RE didn't win his first year, but five of his players were shot two months before the season started, and he had Scott Grote playing center. But what happened after that? What happened after AJax left and everyone said we'd take a step down? He had a 12 game winning streak that captured the attention of the national media. What happened when Saunders and Clark left? Team continued to win and be competitive.

So why take gratuitous potshots at the guy, and that doesn't apply only to Ferry, but to some of the fans here. Some good groundwork has been laid for Ferry and the program, and the idea should be to build it up from here.

Not continue to tear down.
 

 

2/01/2013 9:18 am  #2


Re: A different perspective

I will never forget the thrill of that streak, blowing out teams like Temple, etc it did seem to fall apart after the loss in Olean, NY, I wish we would have fouled that kid before he hit shot the three.

Liked RE, wont bash this Ferry, give him time.


A diehard fan since 1961
 

2/01/2013 9:20 am  #3


Re: A different perspective

Great post.   I really think that this week has been the lowest week of the men's program history.  Worse than the Nee years.  At least then we were all united.  We had some hope.

Now the small fan base is fractured, most don't trust the leadership, the conference is falling apart, and the new coach has not helped himself at all this season.   
 

 

2/01/2013 7:10 pm  #4


Re: A different perspective

ElDuque wrote:

Fix what I don't like in practice. According to Ferry's own words, he's not doing that.
Build the confidence of my team as the season goes forward. When you play the blame game in the press, you're not doing that.
Find a way to win a couple games. Early part of the season, check. Since we played mighty LALA, complete fail.
Find a way to keep the team competitive. See the previous answer.
Be the leader the program needs. Be out front with how hard you have the team working, how much effort is going into recruiting players, how you have guys focusing on improving their weakness. Ouch. Too much Nee-speak.


Do I think Jim Ferry can win here? I don't have any evidence to suggest he will. He's done well at much smaller programs in much smaller conferences against much less competition, but now he has to translate his skills to this level. A-10 conference play alone is a beast. The coaches are better, the players are better, and most of the home courts are brutal (wait until he sees Olean).


Do I want him to win here? Yes. Unqualified yes.


Do I wish the Everhart bashing would stop? I don't think there's any reason it should have ever started.


When RE came here, he didn't have the facilities that we have now. Part of the reason Ferry has those facilities now is because of Everhart's success. People wouldn't have been so willing to give money if we continued to be college basketball's potter's field. We didn't play the kind of schedule we played under Ron. He took on BC, Duke, Arizona, and other top-level programs. He brought back a traditional rival in Penn State. He got us involved in a preseason tournament that ended up giving Ferry three good home games. He coached players who will be inducted into our HOF. Been a long time since a men's basketball player was picked for that.


RE didn't win his first year, but five of his players were shot two months before the season started, and he had Scott Grote playing center. But what happened after that? What happened after AJax left and everyone said we'd take a step down? He had a 12 game winning streak that captured the attention of the national media. What happened when Saunders and Clark left? Team continued to win and be competitive.

So why take gratuitous potshots at the guy, and that doesn't apply only to Ferry, but to some of the fans here. Some good groundwork has been laid for Ferry and the program, and the idea should be to build it up from here.

Not continue to tear down.
 

1.  I haven't listened to Ferry's postgames for home games as I can't get to my car quick enough.  Was this after a home game presser?  After Dayton?  I'd be interested to hear the quote(s) on us not working on our weaknesses.  Not saying it didn't happen, just curious about it.

2.  As far as building team confidence, it's hard to do that in the middle of a losing streak as bad as this one is.

3.  I agree with you we need to find ways to win games.  At this point, it's obviously not getting done.  The issue is how to get it done this year if you still are looking at this year vs. start rebuilding for next year and just call it a lost season.

4.  As far as the leader, actions, not just words, can speak.  His only commit was a top 150 commit.  Who knows what else is out there, but because it's quieter doesn't always mean anything.  How many of RE's commits didn't we hear anything about until they were signed or one day before they were signed?  Over the years, we've heard a lot on "we're working on it" and issues never improving, whether it be FTs for RE or a million things for Nee's year after the extension.  We've seen improvement in some areas, but to constantly say we're improving when we're getting crushed by teams would have a major turnoff factor also.

5.  As far as the evidence to suggest he will win here, there's one piece that suggests he will.  He took over a horrific team at LIU and turned that program around.  It just took a long stretch of time.  Where Ferry differs from many other NEC-style coaches that were successful IMO is that two of Ferry's LIU teams would have been able to compete against bigger programs.  In 2011, Ferry's LIU team by KenPom would have been 6th in the A10.  Yes, it would have been 11th last year, but even 11th in the A10 with an NEC budget is respectable.  Like I said however, it took a long time to build it up to where he would have been 6th in the A10.  I do think he can get us up near the top of a new conference, just wondering how long it will take and if/whether he'll be given the amount of time.

6.  As far as bringing back games, give credit to Amodio there IMO, not RE.  BC was still on the schedule from the Nee era.

7.  Looking back at other posts (not necessarily this one), I'd like people to remember the state of the A10 also.  RE's first year the A10 was the #11 conference, only worthy of 2 bids because GW and not X won the conference tourney.  The league has since gotten progressively harder, and Ferry's record will be against much harder competition, both in and out of conference with the harder scheduling we've seen.

8.  IIRC (and perhaps I am), Grote wasn't the starting center for that long.  Theiro was there while Kieron was out with his labrum, then when Kieron returned he was the center. 

9.  I do agree with you that JF has been given much more to work with.  It's somewhat due to RE's success, but also due to a commitment from Dr. D., who has emphasized hoops more than we've seen since the 70s.  RE had more to work with, too, by the same logic.  He succeeded in rebuilding the program.  Over the next few years, Ferry will have his chance to show whether or not he can take it to another level.  If not, he and GA will likely both be gone.

 

2/01/2013 8:13 pm  #5


Re: A different perspective

ElDuque wrote:

I promise, this will be my last big post about the Everhart vs. Ferry debate. Feel free to pick it apart and I promise to be respectful of opinions and fair arguments, and I will clarify anything that does not seem understandable.

I'm Jim Ferry. I've been hired because the AD at Duquesne says I am the coach who can bring Duquesne basketball to the next level. I'm going into a good situation, as far as coaching changes go, from a program perspective. The facilities are good, the A-10 is a great conference, and the program has been winning for the past couple of seasons. There are some decent returning players - maybe no stars or guys who fit my system perfectly, but I'm being hired to build to the next level for the long haul.

On the negative side, the AD has handled the firing and hiring process poorly. A popular coach has been let go, which has no doubt rankled some of the alumni and fans. The guy won, the guy did a lot of positive things to raise the visibility of the program, and even if I think I'm bringing something better to the table, I have to realize that my first year is not going to be great and I have to win some folks over in other ways.

So what to I do?
Hire a good staff. Check.
Have a good sit-down with the returning players to see what I have, buy-in wise. I'm sure he did that.
Do the best recruiting job I can to address short term needs. Check.
Start working on some longer-term recruits. Check.
Evaluate the talent I have in practice and in games. I'm sure he's doing that.
Fix what I don't like in practice. According to Ferry's own words, he's not doing that.
Build the confidence of my team as the season goes forward. When you play the blame game in the press, you're not doing that.
Find a way to win a couple games. Early part of the season, check. Since we played mighty LALA, complete fail.
Find a way to keep the team competitive. See the previous answer.
Be the leader the program needs. Be out front with how hard you have the team working, how much effort is going into recruiting players, how you have guys focusing on improving their weakness. Ouch. Too much Nee-speak.


Do I think Jim Ferry can win here? I don't have any evidence to suggest he will. He's done well at much smaller programs in much smaller conferences against much less competition, but now he has to translate his skills to this level. A-10 conference play alone is a beast. The coaches are better, the players are better, and most of the home courts are brutal (wait until he sees Olean).


Do I want him to win here? Yes. Unqualified yes.


Do I wish the Everhart bashing would stop? I don't think there's any reason it should have ever started.


When RE came here, he didn't have the facilities that we have now. Part of the reason Ferry has those facilities now is because of Everhart's success. People wouldn't have been so willing to give money if we continued to be college basketball's potter's field. We didn't play the kind of schedule we played under Ron. He took on BC, Duke, Arizona, and other top-level programs. He brought back a traditional rival in Penn State. He got us involved in a preseason tournament that ended up giving Ferry three good home games. He coached players who will be inducted into our HOF. Been a long time since a men's basketball player was picked for that.


RE didn't win his first year, but five of his players were shot two months before the season started, and he had Scott Grote playing center. But what happened after that? What happened after AJax left and everyone said we'd take a step down? He had a 12 game winning streak that captured the attention of the national media. What happened when Saunders and Clark left? Team continued to win and be competitive.

So why take gratuitous potshots at the guy, and that doesn't apply only to Ferry, but to some of the fans here. Some good groundwork has been laid for Ferry and the program, and the idea should be to build it up from here.

Not continue to tear down.
 

What you have to remember though, is that bashing Ferry tends to create criticism of RE. The reason for this, is that when those who don't like your frequent Ferry bashing go to defend him, it's almost automatic that they will point out certain problems that they feel he inherited, which can easily be construed as RE bashing. Not saying that Ferry (or RE) is above criticism, but honestly, you've been a bit over the top lately, and have been just crushing the guy.

 

2/01/2013 8:22 pm  #6


Re: A different perspective

I think El D's post had a lot of good stuff in it, and Rog has some counterpoints that are well-made without being necessarily contradictory.

The one item that needs to be addressed is the one about building confidence. It is certainly true that confidence is hard to build during a losing skein. But confidence can be built by building cohesiveness, and that is not done through an "us-vs-them" mentality, which in this case is the new recruits as opposed to the RE returnees.

When Coach Ferry continues to address the need to raise the talent level of the team through recruiting, he is clearly talking about a perceived lack of talent of the holdovers from the RE teams. This approach is deadly to cohesiveness, and displays a lack of respect for some players who in fact have some considerable talent. This has carried forward from the beginning, when it appeared that Coach Ferry was managing expectations with statements about "starting from scratch", as though he stepped into a complete talent void.

Those were counterproductive statements at the time, and those statements are still being propagated, and they are even more counterproductive now. 

A team whose coach displays no confidence in is a team that will usually struggle to perform.

 

2/01/2013 10:32 pm  #7


Re: A different perspective

Rogabee, you make some good points, but where LIU would have finished in the A-10 is harder to figure than just using RPI. You'd have to see how they did in head-to-head competition.

duq81, I do not believe I am bashing Ferry. Nor do I think I'm being overly critical. He is here, he is coaching the team, and his performance is on display. A lot of people, including you, got mad at CLK for offering his opinions, but he was right.

Give me a couple wins, see if I don't have some good things to say.

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