I had suggested that to find a coach that could come in here and win, it should take forming a committee of basketball people, of a few young stat geeks, and a few alumni, all with a view that someone, young and  unconventional, that can see a different game could be found and give that guy a try.  Just think a minute.  The Steelers chose Tomlin, and before him, Cowher, then look how Ron came in and keep doing things that somehow worked with what he got to work with. Then look at the other choices we get for finding the Ferry's of the world.  Ferry operates on the assumption he can find a bunch of 6'8" guys and compete with teams that get 3 and 4 star 6'8" guys.  With his conventional approach with slower bigs he's going to get his clock cleaned again this year by the quicker smaller teams on the court in the A-10 again.  RM sucks and beat them.  Ferry didn't beat Pitt,  Pitt just beat themselves,  Ferry's approach is about a 45 percent win per year at this level.  He really is not ever going to compete at this level.  Here's a thought, Find a young asst. coach that in HS/College,  played like a  TJ McConnell.  He definitely saw a different game. Here's another thought, lot's of really good coaches were in fact,  point guards in HS/college. Here's another thought, why did that young coach at Butler turn that program into a final four team so quick just few years ago?  What qualities did he have that we can identify and look for. Point here, we can't out-spend, so we had better start to out-think to compete. Your thoughts.
 

NapaDuke wrote:

I had suggested that to find a coach that could come in here and win, it should take forming a committee of basketball people, of a few young stat geeks, and a few alumni, all with a view that someone, young and  unconventional, that can see a different game could be found and give that guy a try.  Just think a minute.  The Steelers chose Tomlin, and before him, Cowher, then look how Ron came in and keep doing things that somehow worked with what he got to work with. Then look at the other choices we get for finding the Ferry's of the world.  Ferry operates on the assumption he can find a bunch of 6'8" guys and compete with teams that get 3 and 4 star 6'8" guys.  With his conventional approach with slower bigs he's going to get his clock cleaned again this year by the quicker smaller teams on the court in the A-10 again.  RM sucks and beat them.  Ferry didn't beat Pitt,  Pitt just beat themselves,  Ferry's approach is about a 45 percent win per year at this level.  He really is not ever going to compete at this level.  Here's a thought, Find a young asst. coach that in HS/College,  played like a  TJ McConnell.  He definitely saw a different game. Here's another thought, lot's of really good coaches were in fact,  point guards in HS/college. Here's another thought, why did that young coach at Butler turn that program into a final four team so quick just few years ago?  What qualities did he have that we can identify and look for. Point here, we can't out-spend, so we had better start to out-think to compete. Your thoughts.
 

Butler was already a very good program well before Stevens got there. Barry Collier won a lot of games there, and Thad Matta got the Xavier job because he won big at Butler. Stevens just took them another step farther.

I'd bring in someone from a top program. Enough of the Smalltime stuff.

Look at Smalltime Jim's staff:
Glessman is another smalltime basketball guy who coached at something called Wheelock College. Wheelock? Is that what you find on your back tire when you're in a no parking zone?
Lawson is a video guy who started at Lemoyne. Both Glessman and Lawson have followed Smalltime Jim since LIU.
Baudinet was a baseball player. Jeremiah Jones played 3+ years here under Smalltime Jim and never experienced a winning season.
Rhodes at least has D1 coaching experience and has been a head coach.

My point is that if you look at other A10 coaching staffs you find guys with previous D1 experience as assistants. Ridiculous that we have Smalltime Jim running a smalltime show here.
 

The Dome wrote:

ED once again the line traces back to one person Amodio. If anyone knows differently please correct me but I believe the hiring of Ferry was a one man show. No search committee no anything. Charlie just wanted it over with. What a mess.

It's my point exactly.  If we want to make a better choice, then it better come from a collective search team with real knowledge in why someone might work here, while others, by their background continue to fail.  Ferry is a carbon copy of the parade of losers that came in before Ron.  Ron wasn't everything, but he won more than he lost and got us to a conf. title game in short order.  Ron had a ceiling but didn't get a chance to raise it before getting the boot. Then this guy, Ferry was a real bad choice.  No real experience at this level, no long term history of winning, just whinning.  If we ever fill the stands again, it's going to come from some young coach coming in here, with a real sense of how this game is played to compete, and adapt. I can't believe at this point the patients shown Ferry in spite of 5 years and we still suck. He will out tenure the previous winning coach by next year?  Madness?.     

Napa and ED, I know for a fact that Ron's hiring was by committee and that the individual that headed that committee was a board member with outstanding corporate credentials who was a long time season ticket holder and knew the game. The results speak for themselves. I will throw one more group under the bus what the hell was the board doing and how do you allow an AD to spend that much money without oversight!!!!!!!!!!!😫😫😫😫😫😫😫

Firing Ron was the correct move. He went from strong, to acceptable, to failure, & his prospects were horrible for the next 2 years. I have had 3 current or former A-10 head coaches tell me this more than once a piece.Sometimes situations go south. It was a shame. You are delusional on this subject. The f----up was the moronic way the firing was handled.

Hiring Ferry has most certainly turned out to be mistake. He wasn't an awesome choice but there was a strong chance he wouldn't suck this bad. I am in Gormley & Harper's ear about this too. 

Sorry not to meet your lofty standard for bravery.

phil95 wrote:

Firing Ron was the correct move. He went from strong, to acceptable, to failure, & his prospects were horrible for the next 2 years. I have had 3 current or former A-10 head coaches tell me this more than once a piece.Sometimes situations go south. It was a shame. You are delusional on this subject. The f----up was the moronic way the firing was handled.

Hiring Ferry has most certainly turned out to be mistake. He wasn't an awesome choice but there was a strong chance he wouldn't suck this bad. I am in Gormley & Harper's ear about this too. 

Sorry not to meet your lofty standard for bravery.

Two corrections and you can go back to your own delusions.

1. Duquesne could have gone to the same tournament Ferry took them to during Ron's last year, but Amodio nixed it. It's well known that Ron had neither the resources nor the support he needed from Amodio. Think of all the contrived "controversies, such as SneakerGate, which were invented for the purpose of embarrassing & undermining Everhart. .500 is hardly rock bottom, and even if RE's last targeted recruits didn't meet your high standards he certainly had the ability to get the most out of the players he had. I'd have wagered that he would have reloaded within two seasons, as he proved previously he was able to do. Your coaching friends may or not admit that; I'd guess they'd lost their fair share of games to RE and enjoy the opportunity to play against Ferry.

2. Ferry had two winning seasons at LIU and it took him, what, 10 years to get there? Excluding those two seasons he was either woefully under .500 or coaching at a level a step above middling HS hoops. How there were any expectations for such a resume, you have me baffled.

Now that Dougherty and Amodio are gone we need to clear out the deadwood they left behind Phil. I'm guessing you're one of the big money donors or a board member or someone with "ins" and I hope you'll be on the right side of history this time around. Right now we need to focus on doing this right, and stop defending one of the greatest blunders in DU basketball history.
 

ElDuque wrote:

phil95 wrote:

Firing Ron was the correct move. He went from strong, to acceptable, to failure, & his prospects were horrible for the next 2 years. I have had 3 current or former A-10 head coaches tell me this more than once a piece.Sometimes situations go south. It was a shame. You are delusional on this subject. The f----up was the moronic way the firing was handled.

Hiring Ferry has most certainly turned out to be mistake. He wasn't an awesome choice but there was a strong chance he wouldn't suck this bad. I am in Gormley & Harper's ear about this too. 

Sorry not to meet your lofty standard for bravery.

Two corrections and you can go back to your own delusions.

1. Duquesne could have gone to the same tournament Ferry took them to during Ron's last year, but Amodio nixed it. It's well known that Ron had neither the resources nor the support he needed from Amodio. Think of all the contrived "controversies, such as SneakerGate, which were invented for the purpose of embarrassing & undermining Everhart. .500 is hardly rock bottom, and even if RE's last targeted recruits didn't meet your high standards he certainly had the ability to get the most out of the players he had. I'd have wagered that he would have reloaded within two seasons, as he proved previously he was able to do. Your coaching friends may or not admit that; I'd guess they'd lost their fair share of games to RE and enjoy the opportunity to play against Ferry.


 

With the difficulties imposed by the shooting, and the fact that we bounced back from it pretty quickly, I thought Ron deserved 2 more years to get the ball rolling again. The recruiting disaster of 2011 put Ron behind the 8 ball, and I'm not one to think that a fairly successful coach ought to be sunk by one bad year.  Now, unlike some, I'm not one who thinks Ron had done enough to be coach for life either. Sooner or later you have to reach the promised land, but the plug was pulled too early. Two more years would have been enough to see if we were headed in the right direction. If by chance at the end of those two years we were floundering, I'd have had no problem with Amodio pulling the plug, and I think the majority on this board would have felt the same way. By floundering, that doesn't mean a particular won loss record. If Ron's 2013 team had only won 10 games (and that was likely in my book), that didn't mean he needed to win 18 the next year. He might have only won 14, but that might have been enough if the young players were clearly getting better, and the team became a "tough out" late in the year. Conversely, if that team had won 17 games, but collapsed down the stretch like last year, or 2011, I might have seen enough.

As for committees, it depends on who is on the committee. I remember the committee that did the search after Satalin was fired. Their selection of Delaware coach Steve Steinwedel was rejected. Those in charge wanted a splash hire, which we got in John Carroll. I'll always wonder what would have happened if the committee had gotten their way. Steinwedel had a couple of great years after that, then faded.
 

I only wish that we could have seen what Ron's ceiling really was if he worked for an AD who was supportive and gave him help and guidance where he needed it.

duq81 wrote:

Westender wrote:

ElDuque wrote:

Two corrections and you can go back to your own delusions.

1. Duquesne could have gone to the same tournament Ferry took them to during Ron's last year, but Amodio nixed it. It's well known that Ron had neither the resources nor the support he needed from Amodio. Think of all the contrived "controversies, such as SneakerGate, which were invented for the purpose of embarrassing & undermining Everhart. .500 is hardly rock bottom, and even if RE's last targeted recruits didn't meet your high standards he certainly had the ability to get the most out of the players he had. I'd have wagered that he would have reloaded within two seasons, as he proved previously he was able to do. Your coaching friends may or not admit that; I'd guess they'd lost their fair share of games to RE and enjoy the opportunity to play against Ferry.

2. Ferry had two winning seasons at LIU and it took him, what, 10 years to get there? Excluding those two seasons he was either woefully under .500 or coaching at a level a step above middling HS hoops. How there were any expectations for such a resume, you have me baffled.

Now that Dougherty and Amodio are gone we need to clear out the deadwood they left behind Phil. I'm guessing you're one of the big money donors or a board member or someone with "ins" and I hope you'll be on the right side of history this time around. Right now we need to focus on doing this right, and stop defending one of the greatest blunders in DU basketball history.
 

​
ED, I agree with your defense of Ron, not because he was without fault or because the prospect of an NCAA appearance was on the horizon, but because he did enough here to have a chance to save his job. And I'm not saying he would have saved it.

While I'm at it, where are all of the posters who wanted Ron's head and who proclaimed Jim Ferry to be a next level coach - the narrative initiated by Amodio to add insult to injury when he orchestrated Ron's firing ??

phil95, were you one of those guys? Do you know where they are?
 

WEB is the only one I can really remember being vocal in his negativity towards Ron. This came after the collapse in 2011. I don't remember too many folks jumping for joy over Ferry, more of a "his record the last few years was good, hope he can do it here". What I really remember was the firestorm over Dino Gaudio. The belief held by many, including myself, is that GA wanted his boy Dino in here. Between the firestorm over Ron's firing, and the negativity towards the idea of Gaudio coming here, I get the feeling that Dino figured he had better options. GA then went hard after Dambrot. When that failed, he turned to Ferry, who was the low major "flavor of the month" after leading LIU to consecutive NCAA bids. I can remember one of the national talking heads saying it was a bad hire, and that Ferry's style wouldn't be successful in the A10. Of course, many of them had panned the Everhart hiring as well.

Here's a question I have guys. I never understood why everyone was so against Dino Gaudio here? I always meant to ask but I used to post on the yuku board and guess I never remembered to. Personally I loved the idea.

Let me tell you a little story (it's true by the way). I grew up in Winston Salem North Carolina, five miles from Wake Forest university. When I was in high school, Skip Prosser, the head coach at Wake at the time, died and his longtime assistant (including at Xavier) took over. His name was Dino Gaudio. He only went on to recruit stud level players like ish smith, Jeff Teague, and James Johnson (all current NBA starters), and experience ridiculous success. He made two tourneys, a sweet sixteen, a number one national ranking in the middle of one season, and guess what happened to him? He had one year that wasn't as strong and the ad fired him and hired his boy from Colorado Jeff Byzdelik or however you spell it. Many people I knew talked about how the ad was just waiting to fire him to get his buddy in there, sound familiar? Wakes program then tanked with the new coach and he was fired shortly after as a total failure and the program has been set back.

Why do I know so much about Dino? I grew up with his daughter (middle and high school together) and they lived in my neighborhood. All true.

Anyway that's how I know him so I never understood why people were against him as a hire. He did pretty big things at the ACC level. They were nationally ranked most of the time he was there

Last edited by Duques102 (12/08/2016 6:28 pm)

Duques102

I went to school with Skip from grade school thru high school, he was a good kid.
In his coaching career he was reguarded as one of the good guys, this by fellow coaches who hate one and other, and Skip knew how to win.

If Dino, who I don't know at all, was good enough for Skip Prosser he surely would have been good enough for Duquesne.

Once Pitt was after Skip but he was beyond them and went to ACC.

Phildog wrote:

Duques102

I went to school with Skip from grade school thru high school, he was a good kid.
In his coaching career he was reguarded as one of the good guys, this by fellow coaches who hate one and other, and Skip knew how to win.

If Dino, who I don't know at all, was good enough for Skip Prosser he surely would have been good enough for Duquesne.

Once Pitt was after Skip but he was beyond them and went to ACC.

 
Phil, very cool. Skip was always regarded as a true gentleman and the class of the ACC in terms of the person he was. Dino was much the same. He was Skips number two for much of both of their careers. Grew up watching those really good Prosser teams with Chris Paul etc...This is the reason I never understood the negativity towards him as a hire

Last edited by Duques102 (12/08/2016 7:27 pm)