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While I am not calling to have the guy fired, I'll ask again because no one seems to be able to answer the question. While I am not calling to have the guy fired, I'll ask again because no one seems to be able to answer the question. This is the thing. I bring up points and they get dismissed or credited to someone else. I'll give you another bullet point run down but only because you asked. Last edited by steve19981 (12/31/2012 11:42 am) Excellent remarks, Steve. I guess it also comes down to expectations. If you were expecting more competitively from him, I can see why you're disappointed though I do think the NEC share was impressive. I'm disappointed we didn't see more championships but I think 3 programs, women's volleyball, women's basketball and with Albany leaving, football, are in prime position to compete for championships in their respective leagues moving forward. This is for you DUQ81. I don't know of anybody here who are Ron Everhart's supporters that asked, as you say, for Ron to be "coach for life". Speaking only for myself, I asked that he be shown more respect. The criticisms are unnecessary and I think mean-spirited in some cases.That is not right for a guy who really liked it here and showed it through his relationships with the Duquesne community, the media and the public. He got on the wrong side of Greg Amodio, and if it were not for that, he'd still be here - even if for only another year and notwithstanding the betrayal of TJ. Steve, many of the points you raised as credits to Amodio should be credit given to Dr. Dougherty. All of the increased spending and improvements are a result of Dr. Dougherty "getting it", regrettably he is not yet getting the return on investment he bargined for. I will point again to the empty Palumbo, lack of student support, alienation of many of many long time alums by the firing of Ron was mishandled. Greg was hired with one main goal to get DU men's basketball program back to the NCAA. This is what his 7th year? The simple question I will ask is how long do we give him to achieve that goal? Are we realistically any closer to being at the top of the A10? Three more years, five more years, seven more years? Last edited by CLK (12/31/2012 12:47 pm) Steve, many of the points you raised as credits to Amodio should be credit given to Dr. Dougherty. All of the increased spending and improvements are a result of Dr. Dougherty "getting it", regrettably he is not yet getting the return on investment he bargined for. I will point again to the empty Palumbo, lack of student support, alienation of many of many long time alums by the firing of Ron was mishandled. Greg was hired with one main goal to get DU men's basketball program back to the NCAA. This is what his 7th year? The simple question I will ask is how long do we give him to achieve that goal? Are we realistically any closer to being at the top of the A10? Three more years, five more years, seven more years? I don't doubt that Dr D gets it but I think Amodio does too. You can question the source but all of those things still happened under his watch so he gets some credit for it. If you are going to give credit to Amodio for increased funding which clearly is a decision by the President and Administration, then you also need to hold him accountable for the things under his contol. Last edited by CLK (12/31/2012 2:10 pm) Shared an NEC football championship? Left out you didn't get the NCAA bid because you lost to the other team you were tied with. Or that same team regressed this year and were the most disappointing team in the NEC? Last edited by CLK (12/31/2012 2:18 pm) If you are going to give credit to Amodio for increased funding which clearly is a decision by the President and Administration, then you also need to hold him accountable for the things under his contol. Thank you for pointing out the third in the city stat. I live in Pittsburgh. RMU hockey has now surpassed DU men's basketball in coverage on the Fan. If you are going to give credit to Amodio for increased funding which clearly is a decision by the President and Administration, then you also need to hold him accountable for the things under his contol. I'm not a fan of turning over administrators quickly. Unless a guy or gal is a complete dunce, I think 10 years is the minimum they should get. Same goes for university presidents. Takes time to make changes and to build something. Again I don't think Greg's the same caliber AD as Fiore from Stony Brook, but his time line was 6 years to lay the foundation for success in mutliple sports. I don't think 7 or 8 is unreasonable to keep his job. Just because you don't believe we are behind RMU, doesn't mean we are not behind RMU. We are behind them in NCAA Tournament appearances since they started Div 1 sports by miles. We are behind them in the opinion of the media. We are behind them in the opinion of the casual fan. We are behind them in coverage. Do you know they have Internet broadcasts of their away womens bb games and men's hockey games? We don't have Internet broadcasts of womens road bb games. Last edited by duqkurt (12/31/2012 3:57 pm) Steve, it's not a very impressive list. I'm glad ADs get 7 or more years while coaches only get 5, or Amodio would certainly be in trouble. Just because you don't believe we are behind RMU, doesn't mean we are not behind RMU. We are behind them in NCAA Tournament appearances since they started Div 1 sports by miles. We are behind them in the opinion of the media. We are behind them in the opinion of the casual fan. We are behind them in coverage. Do you know they have Internet broadcasts of their away womens bb games and men's hockey games? We don't have Internet broadcasts of womens road bb games. I don't give a crap about the media and their opinion. and I don't think we're behind them in coverage. We're on FM for basketball and have a coaches show on clear channel I don't even know who broadcasts them for basketball. Robert Morris did a great job seizing an opportunity to fill a market void with hockey, but that was well before Amodio got the job. Colleary and Hogan dropped the ball on that one as we had a very strong club team when I was in college around the time Robert Morris went D-1. Last edited by steve19981 (12/31/2012 5:56 pm) Steve I really do not understand your logic. Are you saying even though we can not beat RMU, don't have as many wins, championsips or NCAA appearances during Amodio's reign because we can afford to out spend them it makes us a better program? If that is the case I am a better basketball player than any player on DU's roster because I am pretty sure I can outspend these student athletes. Please do not take offense but that is a very poor argument. All that tells me is that RMU has a better AD and gets more bang for the buck. It does more to enhance the arugument that Amodio should be fired than defending him. I honestly do not like admitting that they have surpassed DU, but the only true measures are wins and championships. Steve I really do not understand your logic. Are you saying even though we can not beat RMU, don't have as many wins, championsips or NCAA appearances during Amodio's reign because we can afford to out spend them it makes us a better program? If that is the case I am a better basketball player than any player on DU's roster because I am pretty sure I can outspend these student athletes. Please do not take offense but that is a very poor argument. All that tells me is that RMU has a better AD and gets more bang for the buck. It does more to enhance the arugument that Amodio should be fired than defending him. I honestly do not like admitting that they have surpassed DU, but the only true measures are wins and championships. I think you're over simplifying my argument and looking past a number of other key points I make. Steve, a 67% winning percentage is pretty darned good in any sport. It doesn't really help your argument. Nor does the "higher RPI" statement. The guy who led us to that is gone. Thanks to both CLK and ED for making my argument more eloquently than I could concerning RMU. It is painful to admit that RMU has passed us. Sickenly to say, but they have. Steve I really do not understand your logic. Are you saying even though we can not beat RMU, don't have as many wins, championsips or NCAA appearances during Amodio's reign because we can afford to out spend them it makes us a better program? If that is the case I am a better basketball player than any player on DU's roster because I am pretty sure I can outspend these student athletes. Please do not take offense but that is a very poor argument. All that tells me is that RMU has a better AD and gets more bang for the buck. It does more to enhance the arugument that Amodio should be fired than defending him. I honestly do not like admitting that they have surpassed DU, but the only true measures are wins and championships. Of course, using that logic, we should have fired RE and hired Toole, since Toole never lost to RE, he must be a better coach. Of course, when we did decide to steal a coach from RMU, we took their worst coach ever. Steve, a 67% winning percentage is pretty darned good in any sport. It doesn't really help your argument. Nor does the "higher RPI" statement. The guy who led us to that is gone. First of all, no one in this conversation is speaking in facts. It's your opinion that the Colonials better and that's fine. I don't agree with it and I feel like I've laid out a coherent argument in support of Amodio and our program against RMU. I'm done with this conversation because I'm sick of my valid points simply being dismissed just because you don't agree with them. Ron leaving doesn't change that he was part of the program. We don't go back to square one because he left. Steve, there is no need to attack El Duque by comparing him to WEB. You may believe you have made coherent aruguments, but when you claim that you can lose to another school 2 out of every three times over the last 7 years but you are still a better program that is not a very coherent argument to me. Or because you can out spend another school even though you can't beat them it makes you a better program is not convincing to me. Or you can loose to a team three times in a row but because they play a weaker schedule you are a better program is not coherent to me. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but don't get upset if people don't agree with you. IMHO you should have quit when you said we should just agree to disagee. You can of course continue to try to defend Amodio (I don't know why you would want to champion that cause) but if you are expecting to be "reasoned with" you are going to have to come up with more convincing arguments. Last edited by CLK (1/01/2013 2:01 pm) Steve, there is no need to attack El Duque by comparing him to WEB. You may believe you have made coherent aruguments, but when you claim that you can lose to another school 2 out of every three times over the last 7 years but you are still a better program that is not a very coherent argument to me. Or because you can out spend another school even though you can't beat them it makes you a better program is not convincing to me. Or you can loose to a team three times in a row but because they play a weaker schedule you are a better program is not coherent to me. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but don't get upset if people don't agree with you. IMHO you should have quit when you said we should just agree to disagee. You can of course continue to try to defend Amodio (I don't know why you would want to champion that cause) but if you are expecting to be "reasoned with" you are going to have to come up with more convincing arguments. First, I'm not upset. I don't let sports get to me anymore nor do I get provoked by discussion such as this one. "Sick" may have been a stronger word to use and I'm not taking any of this personally. Last edited by steve19981 (1/01/2013 3:24 pm) Steve, for me the relavent period under discussion is the last seven years under Amodio. RMU has been a better program based on head to head performace without question, beating us two out of every three times we played. There is also no question Duquesne should have been able performed better in all sports given the better facilities, funding, conference and so on that you mentioned, but they did not. I do not see how the AD gets a Mulligan for his horrible seven year record against RMU. Long term, I hope DU is able to prove on the Court, field, rink that they are a better program. I just do not have confidence in the AD that he is the man to lead this effort given his abysmal record. The only thing I can say about your speculative comment is that you & I are talking to different people. Last edited by CLK (1/01/2013 4:17 pm) [Second, I was brought into the this conversation by a challenge kurt made and was brought back in when ED persisted. I'd just as soon have been done with it. Oh is that right? My participation in this thread consisted of ranting about concerning two technical fouls within 30 seconds. Followed by a smart remark concerning Amodio. Last edited by duqkurt (1/01/2013 4:52 pm) [Second, I was brought into the this conversation by a challenge kurt made and was brought back in when ED persisted. I'd just as soon have been done with it. Oh is that right? My participation in this thread consisted of ranting about concerning two technical fouls within 30 seconds. Followed by a smart remark concerning Amodio. Actually, I've tried to quit twice now. I intend to hold to it this time. I'm not sure why you think I'm some kind of egomaniac. Argumentative sure, egomaniac, no.
SEE INFORMATION UNDER MEN'S BASKETBALL BELOW:
COACH DRU HAS NOW FILLED ALL OF HIS COACHING POSITIONS
BRONNY JAMES REMAINS IN THE NBA DRAFT
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Re: PSU 4pm next Sat
What, exactly, has Amodio accomplished since he's been here?
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Re: PSU 4pm next Sat
ElDuque wrote:
What, exactly, has Amodio accomplished since he's been here?
- Women's basketball is at it's highest point ever
- Football shares the NEC championship in just it's 4th year I believe in scholarship football
- Move to scholarship football
- Spending on men's and women's basketball is in line with just about everyone in the A-10. Spending on football is in line with just about anyone in the NEC.
- City game has become an important event in Pittsburgh again with the game returning to a neutral arena
- Men's basketball significantly improved (keep in mind, he did hire Ron even if he ultimately fired him)
- Move to FM radio for men's basketball broadcasts
- Arena upgraded and it's appearance is now comparable to other A-10 arenas.
- Locker room, gym and athletic offices improved.
- Women's volleyball at it's highest point ever.
Some of these things are more important to me than to others like women's basketball. There are some other, more subjective points that I decided to omit.
Still a long way to go and the investments need to start translating into championships or at large bids. 7 years is not a long time to turn around an entire athletic department, but now is when we should start seeing a consistent return. If you look at Jim Fiore of Stony Brook, generally regarded as one of the hottest AD's in all of college sports, efforts didn't begin translate until year 6 or 7. Amodio's record gets a big boost if Suzie can get the team to the NCAA's this year, but at the end of the day, a Duquesne AD's success will only goes as far as men's basketball takes it. The rest of the athletic department relies on the money it generates and it's not generating enough at the moment. This will be his challenge over the next couple of years.
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Re: PSU 4pm next Sat
The whining that seems to be emerging because of the struggle of this season ignores all of the accomplishments of the current leadership.
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Re: PSU 4pm next Sat
I'm still seeing progress in the athletic department, but the standard changes for me starting in year 8. From there on out, I'd like to see at least one NCAA post season event (men's NIT not women's included) or regular season championship every year. Up until now, Amodio has been laying the foundation. Now, it's about building the castle.
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Re: PSU 4pm next Sat
I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that there will be innumerable complaints, criticisms and second-guessing of Jim Ferry's coaching over the next few years. It goes with the territory. So I say again to those who want to prop Coach Ferry up by tearing Ron down that we should wait a few years and see results on the floor before we crown Jim "coach for life". I personally think he has a chance to do well here, but he needs a few more years, more administrative support and more fan support. GA is on the line to provide the latter.
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Re: PSU 4pm next Sat
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Re: PSU 4pm next Sat
CLK wrote:
We are closer to the top of the A-10 than when Amodio was hired by a long shot. We've gone from deadbeat to established middle of the conference. If RPI matters at this point, we're a much improved program even since Ron was hired. We're currently 122, Ron's team finished 223 his first year. The year prior, we were 308. This is not a rub on Ron rather than an illustration of how far we're come in the last 6 years relative to the rest of the NCAA. He deserves much of the credit for that improvement. The problem is that the rest of the A-10 is also relatively better. 3 of the 4 former A-10 anchors are reaching respectability. I expect us to make a nice jump year, but to the contender level. I hate talking about next year now so I'll go into greater detail about why after the season.
The hard part will be getting to the next level. We've been stuck where we are for years now and getting to the middle was relatively easy. It could still take a few more years as I have my concerns with the sophomore class. That could be limiting, but in terms of infrastructure the team is in much position to take steps than they were 7 years ago due to facilities improvements. It's a lot easier to grow a garden when you improve the soil quality. Whether you give credit to GA or Dr. D, clearly the land is more fertile now and the conditions needed to grow are there. The problem is that it still takes a while for the garden to grow. Success in other programs will tide me over for another five years, but if we don't have more success in men's basketball by then, I think Amodio will be chopped.
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Re: PSU 4pm next Sat
We are #3 in the City and have been for a while. RMU made that decisively clear this year with a lot less resources and facilities. That happened under Amodio's watch.
You said we are closer to the top of the A10, established middle of the pack? We were picked last, and league play has not even started. Let's see if we even win 3 league games this year. Mid year RPI's mean nothing. Let's hope we beat Fordham on the road next week because I hate to see what our RPI will look like. Let's talk at the end of the season. If we are in the middle of the pack I will gladly apologize.
Where is the student support? Not that it has been that great, but this year it is non existant. That is happening under Greg's watch.
What happen to the football team this year? Beaten by RMU and finished in the bottom half of the league. That happened under Amodio's watch.
Season ticket sales are down sharply. This is happening under Greg's watch.
Amodio IMHO should be held accountable now for these items not 5 years from now. If I understand you post you think it is OK for Greg to have 12 or 13 years total for not getting the men's hoop program in the NCAA (his main goal and reason for hiring him) as long as he wins in women volleyball. There is our difference. Steve, as you said I am not going to change your opinion and you are not going to change mine.
Re: PSU 4pm next Sat
Womens vb at an all time high? The coach is a career 50+ games under 500 in the A10. Never has come close to winning a set off the top A10 programs let alone a match against them. Ousted in first round of A10 tournament. One won A10 tournament game in his over 10 year plus tenure.
7 years of laying a foundation. That is going to be some special castle that he is building. With the exception of womens bb after 7 years we have no realistic hopes of winning an A10 title in any sport.
I really wish I had the self control not to respond but I don't.
Re: PSU 4pm next Sat
CLK wrote:
We are #3 in the City and have been for a while. RMU made that decisively clear this year with a lot less resources and facilities. That happened under Amodio's watch.
You said we are closer to the top of the A10, established middle of the pack? We were picked last, and league play has not even started. Let's see if we even win 3 league games this year. Mid year RPI's mean nothing. Let's hope we beat Fordham on the road next week because I hate to see what our RPI will look like. Let's talk at the end of the season. If we are in the middle of the pack I will gladly apologize.
Where is the student support? Not that it has been that great, but this year it is non existant. That is happening under Greg's watch.
What happen to the football team this year? Beaten by RMU and finished in the bottom half of the league. That happened under Amodio's watch.
Season ticket sales are down sharply. This is happening under Greg's watch.
Amodio IMHO should be held accountable now for these items not 5 years from now. If I understand you post you think it is OK for Greg to have 12 or 13 years total for not getting the men's hoop program in the NCAA (his main goal and reason for hiring him) as long as he wins in women volleyball. There is our difference. Steve, as you said I am not going to change your opinion and you are not going to change mine.
They do so much more with so much less than us.
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Re: PSU 4pm next Sat
CLK wrote:
We are #3 in the City and have been for a while. RMU made that decisively clear this year with a lot less resources and facilities. That happened under Amodio's watch.
You said we are closer to the top of the A10, established middle of the pack? We were picked last, and league play has not even started. Let's see if we even win 3 league games this year. Mid year RPI's mean nothing. Let's hope we beat Fordham on the road next week because I hate to see what our RPI will look like. Let's talk at the end of the season. If we are in the middle of the pack I will gladly apologize.
Where is the student support? Not that it has been that great, but this year it is non existant. That is happening under Greg's watch.
What happen to the football team this year? Beaten by RMU and finished in the bottom half of the league. That happened under Amodio's watch.
Season ticket sales are down sharply. This is happening under Greg's watch.
Amodio IMHO should be held accountable now for these items not 5 years from now. If I understand you post you think it is OK for Greg to have 12 or 13 years total for not getting the men's hoop program in the NCAA (his main goal and reason for hiring him) as long as he wins in women volleyball. There is our difference. Steve, as you said I am not going to change your opinion and you are not going to change mine.
I also don't agree with us being behind RMU and it will take more than three years of them winning to change my tune. Too much other stuff factors in and I've outlined it in the past. Don't have time to go into detail again now but I think the end logic is could we hire their coach and could they hire ours. If we can get their guy (and we can) but they couldn't get ours, we're ahead, plain and simple.
As for my point about volleyball, look at the history of the program on the website and tell me this isn't the best run they've had. Again, the coach may not be good enough but he's done quite well and is growing something of late. If he was going to get canned it should have been years ago.
I never said Amodio doesn't have work to do. Not perfect, but there are positives as well as areas of concern. IMO, the positives still outweigh the negatives but again, no ones mind is getting changed.
Re: PSU 4pm next Sat
Because you wish to cherry pick results and we have 500 people more than them at basketball games doesn't mean we are not behind them.
If they were to announce tomorrow they were building an 8,000 seat combo basketball /hockey arena on campus, we would be behind them forever.
You speak like you are an expert on every subject, yet you admit you don't go to football games. Why don't you ask Coffee and the football posters what they think of GA?
I call you out on womens volleyball and you say there recent run. What nice recent run? All the way up to 5th place and a first round defeat in the tournament.
GA has accomplished three things.
1. Hiring SMS
2. Renovating Palumbo
3. Getting DU basketball on a FM radio.
That's it.
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Re: PSU 4pm next Sat
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duqkurt wrote:
Because you wish to cherry pick results and we have 500 people more than them at basketball games doesn't mean we are not behind them.
If they were to announce tomorrow they were building an 8,000 seat combo basketball /hockey arena on campus, we would be behind them forever.
Right now, Duquesne's women's basketball is averaging more fans per game than Robert Morris men's basketball (1032 vs 934) and RMU's numbers are inflated by 300-500 Duquesne fans who showed up to the County Game. Our men's team is averaging 2000 more per game. We play home games against WVU and Penn St. Neither of those teams would dream of playing RMU on the road. We are RMU's best home game in a two year cycle. They are maybe our 8th our 9th best on ours
RMU has us in NCAA appearances and a recent win streak.They also have a more creative athletic department. That's it. Their facilities are still well below ours. Again, if we want their coach, we could take him. That's the power of being able to triple his salary, double his budget and put him in a conference where he could not just get to but make noise in the NCAA tournament.
I don't pretend to be an expert on football and I acknowledge that often enough. I just think with the changing league and quite a few good returning players that we should be in decent shape for the future. I just got into them this year and I intend to follow them a lot more closely. I tried to no avail to find someone to cover the team for the blog so I didn't have to.
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Re: PSU 4pm next Sat
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Re: PSU 4pm next Sat
CLK wrote:
IMO, computer rankings are important too. Over the past 5 years, Dukes average RPI is still higher even though they got beat each of the last three years. RMU's SOS is garbage. If you want to make the argument that they're on similar footing as us, I can buy that. But I just don't see them as having a clear edge in terms of their basketball program or athletics in general. If they did, Robert Morris would be doing better than 12-6-2 in all team sports over the past 3 seasons against us.
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Re: PSU 4pm next Sat
Right now, as much as it pains me to say it, Duquesne is #3 in Pittsburgh. That's a cold hard fact.
I've had enough of this miserable talk tonight. Good night, Happy New Year, may Amodio figure things out in 2013.
Re: PSU 4pm next Sat
Happy New Year to All!!!! I am logging out and getting a pizza from Mineos.
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Re: PSU 4pm next Sat
CLK wrote:
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Re: PSU 4pm next Sat
ElDuque wrote:
Right now, as much as it pains me to say it, Duquesne is #3 in Pittsburgh. That's a cold hard fact.
I've had enough of this miserable talk tonight. Good night, Happy New Year, may Amodio figure things out in 2013.
I'm going to say something that is probably going to offend more than it should but you're beginning to sound like WEB. You don't seem to get any enjoyment out of the program, because of the people involved. You also can't be reasoned with and you're speaking in absolutes. My belief is that you get behind the team not the people. I've heard a lot of talk of moving on over here but not a lot of actual moving on.
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Re: PSU 4pm next Sat
As for you last paragraph, let me say again that was not necessary. As far as your moving on statement, if you look back you will see it was your gratitous comments comparing Ferry to Ron that parcipitated the response in this thread.
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Re: PSU 4pm next Sat
CLK wrote:
As for you last paragraph, let me say again that was not necessary. As far as your moving on statement, if you look back you will see it was your gratitous comments comparing Ferry to Ron that parcipitated the response in this thread.
Second, I was brought into the this conversation by a challenge kurt made and was brought back in when ED persisted. I'd just as soon have been done with it.
Third, your argument seems to revolve around Robert Morris having won three in a row and 4 of 7 and a couple of NCAA appearances. I think that it is valid. I see a bigger picture argument that on aggregate points to us being in a better position to sustain success over a long period of time and that looking at a snapshot of the two programs is not as meaningful as you do. The series favors them of late, but if Duquesne continues to sustain this level of commitment, Robert Morris can't keep up. Being able to hire their coach and give him more of a budget to work with is dealing from a position of strength. For the same reason, I still put Duquesne's women behind Pitt. Even if we've been more successful of late, they could snatch up Suzie in a second. They're dealing from the position of strength and until we extend her contract to where Pitt would be unlikely or unwilling to exceed it, we're behind them. Of course, that is just one of my points. I'm not discounting or ignoring the fact that we've lost three times to them. I'm weighing that against a number of other factors and I simply don't think the two sides balance or point in RMU's favor. I think the bigger picture outweighs what happened in three games and that includes much higher ticket sales, better facilities, better RPI, better scheduling, playing in bigger games, better conference, better chance of long term success based on level of funding, and superior all sports performance. But we'll agree to disagree as we both prefer to do as long as other posters can agree to be satisfied by that.
If you can believe this, I'm not the only Amodio supporter out there. I think about half the people I talk to about Duquesne could care less about Amodio at this point. The other half are split fairly evenly between people who like what he's doing and people who can't stand him. This is a subjective estimate, but it's how I see it.
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Re: PSU 4pm next Sat
Re: PSU 4pm next Sat
steve19981 wrote:
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You entered on your own at 12/29/2012 9:25 pm. It is a message board. I believe I am allowed to rant within the rules of the board.
How you view this as a "challenge" to you when I didnt refer to any poster is beyond me.
You entered on your own. So don't go blaming me that I somehow sucked you into the conversation. You wont quit because you can't stand the fact that people disagree with your opinion.
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Re: PSU 4pm next Sat
duqkurt wrote:steve19981 wrote:
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You entered on your own at 12/29/2012 9:25 pm. It is a message board. I believe I am allowed to rant within the rules of the board.
How you view this as a "challenge" to you when I didnt refer to any poster is beyond me.
You entered on your own. So don't go blaming me that I somehow sucked you into the conversation. You wont quit because you can't stand the fact that people disagree with your opinion.
