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Don't want to give any analysis here for a little. Hear hear Though today's game was probably closer than any of us expected, I'm happy for all of our long-suffering fans. I have a feeling Jim Ferry's squad will make this a season to remember, a turning point for Duquesne basketball. Don't want to give any analysis here for a little. I'll second that. Today WAS a little too close for comfort. We went up 9 with about 5 minutes to go first half but then let them have an uncontested 3 and 3 layups in a row. That made me uneasy. But, hey, a win is a win. Hopefully 2-1 the rest of OOC then the fun begins... Glad we won but we can't gauge the season on pulling out a win against St. Francis. They aren't exactly at the top of charts in Division I basketball. Just being objective. Did Ferry turn things around. Too early to tell. Let's see how we do in league games and then we will know Good luck Duquesne. Don't want to give any analysis here for a little. Are you talking about turning the ship around from his first 3 seasons? Glad we won but we can't gauge the season on pulling out a win against St. Francis. They aren't exactly at the top of charts in Division I basketball. Just being objective. Did Ferry turn things around. Too early to tell. Let's see how we do in league games and then we will know Good luck Duquesne. Couldn't agree more Fam. Don't want to rain on the Happy and Satisfied Parade, but would like to see more against better competition. Yes, before folks start throwing rocks and calling us negative, they need to put their objective glasses on. Last edited by FAM (12/13/2015 9:41 am) You have to put Milwaukee in the good win category. They beat Wisconsin the other day, even though Wisconsin has struggled a bit You have to put Milwaukee in the good win category. They beat Wisconsin the other day, even though Wisconsin has struggled a bit Yes, before folks start throwing rocks and calling us negative, they need to put their objective glasses on. This Sure, we haven't "arrived" yet, but our schedule is about what it's always been for the last 36 years, yet we never had an 8-2 start. I don't understand why the Ferry haters want to piss on the small amount of joy this team has provided. You'll likely get your wish soon enough. Either Ferry will fail, and be fired, or he'll succeed, and get a better job. You know what happens when you assume duq81 You know what happens when you assume duq81 Hell, who really succeeded? Red retired. I would guess that if Red had really wanted to move up to a money school (football), he could have done so during the run in the late 60s-early 70s. Other than that, Cinicola, Satalin, Carroll, Edgar, Porter, and Nee were all failures. Rice, and Ron had some success, but not at the level that would land them a better job, although Ron had a shot at Penn St. Had he beaten Temple in 09, or avoided the collapse after the 11 game winning streak, he may indeed have gotten that higher level job. Any Dukes coach that can earn an at large bid to the dance will get looked at by bigger programs. 81: It is great to start 8-2 so enjoy the moment. This has historically not been joyful basketball time of year for DU fans. Hopefully the Dukes will finish at least 10-3 in the non conference schedule. The great start (if they reach the assumed 10 wins) would mean that the Dukes will only need 6 wins in conference to have a winning season. That is the challenge. The consensus of this Board in the preseason poll for this season is 16 wins. The Dukes have a chance to better that prediction with the good start. To me, however, if the Dukes do not achieve a winning season it will be a failed season regardless how well they started. Last edited by CLK (12/13/2015 1:16 pm) Checking around the league, I see that the traditional bottom feeders of the A-10, Fordham and St. Bonaventure, are a combined 14-3. The A-10 is getting stronger! Checking around the league, I see that the traditional bottom feeders of the A-10, Fordham and St. Bonaventure, are a combined 14-3. The A-10 is getting stronger! No doubt about it. Every game is going to be a battle. That's why it is encouraging that we've stayed composed in these close games. Even George mason, who looks awful some nights, has quality wins Checking around the league, I see that the traditional bottom feeders of the A-10, Fordham and St. Bonaventure, are a combined 14-3. The A-10 is getting stronger! A bit unfair to Bona. They haven't been a bottom feeder for quite a while now. Yes, before folks start throwing rocks and calling us negative, they need to put their objective glasses on. This I'm with you guys on this analysis. The team is better, they are moving in the right direction. I like a lot of things I see; I like the 8 wins. I like the how the coaching staff has balanced out the classes, so that it appears that the success may be sustainable. I like the quality/talent level of the players that are being brought into Duquesne by Jim Ferry. And they have won a couple more that I thought they would at this point. For those wanting to knock the SOS, it's also noteworthy that the Dukes have their best record with only four of the nine games they've played thus far coming at home (4 home, 4 neutral, 1 semi-away). Most years a majority of the OOC games are at Palumbo or the CEC. I get that the schedule hasn't been that tough, but winning away from home shows something also. Yes, before folks start throwing rocks and calling us negative, they need to put their objective glasses on. This I'm with you guys on this analysis. The team is better, they are moving in the right direction. I like a lot of things I see; I like the 8 wins. I like the how the coaching staff has balanced out the classes, so that it appears that the success may be sustainable. I like the quality/talent level of the players that are being brought into Duquesne by Jim Ferry. And they have won a couple more that I thought they would at this point. Let's not act like Pomeroy is the only ratings system out there. Live-rpi has the Dukes at 98. Real Time Rpi has us at 101. Jerry Palm has us at 119. Team Rankings has us at 90. Warren Nolan has us at 92. Jeff Sagarin has us at 126. You went and picked out the system that gave us the lowest rating. All of the systems are suspect early in the year, because they are still influenced by where they picked the teams before play began. This I'm with you guys on this analysis. The team is better, they are moving in the right direction. I like a lot of things I see; I like the 8 wins. I like the how the coaching staff has balanced out the classes, so that it appears that the success may be sustainable. I like the quality/talent level of the players that are being brought into Duquesne by Jim Ferry. And they have won a couple more that I thought they would at this point. Let's not act like Pomeroy is the only ratings system out there. Live-rpi has the Dukes at 98. Real Time Rpi has us at 101. Jerry Palm has us at 119. Team Rankings has us at 90. Warren Nolan has us at 92. Jeff Sagarin has us at 126. You went and picked out the system that gave us the lowest rating. All of the systems are suspect early in the year, because they are still influenced by where they picked the teams before play began. Fair point, duq81. KenPom is the only one that I follow I hadn't seen any of those other ratings. So I didn't "pick and choose" anything as you stated. Agreed that these early ratings are heavily influenced by the initial slot that a team was placed in. Last edited by PhoenixRising2 (12/14/2015 7:58 am) duq81, I don't know if you meant to imply that Phoenix "cherry picked" a rating, because that would be absurd. KenPom is perhaps the most respected, and most often cited, rating system. Phoenix has consistently over the years provided these stats (which I very much appreciate and hope he will continue). I think there are fair points on both sides, but as I pointed out previously... good start, but means nothing if the Dukes ultimately do not wind up having a winning season. duq81, I don't know if you meant to imply that Phoenix "cherry picked" a rating, because that would be absurd. KenPom is perhaps the most respected, and most often cited, rating system. Phoenix has consistently over the years provided these stats (which I very much appreciate and hope he will continue). I think there are fair points on both sides, but as I pointed out previously... good start, but means nothing if the Dukes ultimately do not wind up having a winning season. Nah, just wanted to point out that you have to take these things with a grain of salt. It's just like how people took the preseason predictions as gospel that we would be terrible this year. That said, we need to win the next two, as the following four will be our most difficult stretch of the season. The four best teams left on the schedule, and three of them on the road. We'll be underdogs in all four games, and truthfully, I'd be happy with one win out of the four. The key to the season will be whether or not we can defend our home court. Assuming we can win the next two, it will be imperative for us to win no less than 6 league games at home. I would have said 7, but we're currently one game ahead of where I thought we'd be at this point, giving us a bit of cushion. The league is somewhat wide open this year. We don't have any teams that clearly stand out the way Xavier often did, or VCU did recently. On the other hand, other than GMU, there are no real weaklings in the league either. This means there will be several teams capable of coming here and beating us at home, as well as us having a chance in several of our road games. Should be an interesting season.
CONGRATULATIONS COACH DRU JOYCE III
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8-2
7-2 was best start in 36 years. How does 8-2 shake out?
Congrats to Jim Ferry for turning this ship around. Great job!
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Re: 8-2
Vicimus Atlanticum decem
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Blow by the Bulldogs.
Let's Go Dukes!
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WEB wrote:
7-2 was best start in 36 years. How does 8-2 shake out?
Congrats to Jim Ferry for turning this ship around. Great job!
WE ARE CREEPING UP TO THE SECOND FLOOR....
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WEB wrote:
7-2 was best start in 36 years. How does 8-2 shake out?
Congrats to Jim Ferry for turning this ship around. Great job!
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Re: 8-2
FAM wrote:
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Re: 8-2
-Yes, last year we would have lost this game and some others.
-Yes, we are better than last year
-No, we can not tell if the entire season has been turned around because we have not had the competition. Aside from Penn State and Western Kentucky our wins haven't been against anyone that is in my laymans terms talked about as very good. Also, away games in the league will be tough. Yes, the tournament was away but St. Francis was a regular game, not on their own court, and again, look at their record and look at their team. They aren't very good sports fans.
Now, we definitely already have a better team but we need to wait, HAVE to measure it agains our league games for true success. Sustainability will be the litmus test. Wednesday against a not too strong opponent and next Saturday against Robert Morris will be extremely interesting because Robert Morris has no trouble believing they can beat us. I am concerned that fans will think we have "arrived" because we have won out of league games against lower competition. If we don't have higher expectations than that, we have really sunken low and have no objectivity. It makes me think of this year with Pitt football. Their fans were so excited at their record and how well they have done but I think at the mid-point or a game or two later they had NOT beaten one team with a winning record. Their ACC conference and division sucks, and they keep having players and coaches leave for their destination job. Please, no PITT delusional football thoughts..
Good Luck Dukes
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Dukes2012 wrote:
Agreed, and Milwaukee was one of those games that would have slipped away last year.
Vicimus Atlanticum decem
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Re: 8-2
FAM wrote:
-Yes, last year we would have lost this game and some others.
-Yes, we are better than last year
-No, we can not tell if the entire season has been turned around because we have not had the competition. Aside from Penn State and Western Kentucky our wins haven't been against anyone that is in my laymans terms talked about as very good. Also, away games in the league will be tough. Yes, the tournament was away but St. Francis was a regular game, not on their own court, and again, look at their record and look at their team. They aren't very good sports fans.
Now, we definitely already have a better team but we need to wait, HAVE to measure it agains our league games for true success. Sustainability will be the litmus test. Wednesday against a not too strong opponent and next Saturday against Robert Morris will be extremely interesting because Robert Morris has no trouble believing they can beat us. I am concerned that fans will think we have "arrived" because we have won out of league games against lower competition. If we don't have higher expectations than that, we have really sunken low and have no objectivity. It makes me think of this year with Pitt football. Their fans were so excited at their record and how well they have done but I think at the mid-point or a game or two later they had NOT beaten one team with a winning record. Their ACC conference and division sucks, and they keep having players and coaches leave for their destination job. Please, no PITT delusional football thoughts..
Good Luck Dukes
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Re: 8-2
Winning these ooc games are the key to having a winning season. Other than some struggles with Robert Morris, Ron never lost these types of games. That was the key to his success. 5 winning seasons in 6 years, despite being below .500 in league play 4 times. The key was taking care of business vs teams we should beat. That is what we're doing this year. People act as though this team is supposed to compete for a high seed in the NCAA Tournament this year, and that otherwise, the season is a failure. We may one day reach that point, but we're nowhere near that now. We've asked for a winning season, with no awful losses, and so far, that's what we've gotten.
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Re: 8-2
Being objective is not being a Ferry hater. I don't hate him and didn't love any other coach. I look at the records and the success/failure. Actually, as far as assessing outcome, it is that simple. Everything else is opinion, including mine. Though it is pain in the A-- at times posting/conversing with folks who are NOT objective, and I am not saying that is you. Now, I agree on two out of your three posts.
1. He will fail or
2. He will succeed
I don't agree that if he succeeds, he will get a BETTER job. Actually, and this is for you historians, can anyone remember one Duquesne coach in the last 50 years who succeeded and got a BETTER job after being at Duquesne?
I can't.
If you want to take objectivity as negativity that is your decision. But nothing I said above is based on anything but facts... in regard to their opponents strength, or the teams we will play in the future. Some of you folks don't get it...and no explanations in a post will convince you, so I will just end there.
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Re: 8-2
FAM wrote: Being objective is not being a Ferry hater. I don't hate him and didn't love any other coach. I look at the records and the success/failure. Actually, as far as assessing outcome, it is that simple. Everything else is opinion, including mine. Though it is pain in the A-- at times posting/conversing with folks who are NOT objective, and I am not saying that is you. Now, I agree on two out of your three posts.
1. He will fail or
2. He will succeed
I don't agree that if he succeeds, he will get a BETTER job. Actually, and this is for you historians, can anyone remember one Duquesne coach in the last 50 years who succeeded and got a BETTER job after being at Duquesne?
I can't.
If you want to take objectivity as negativity that is your decision. But nothing I said above is based on anything but facts... in regard to their opponents strength, or the teams we will play in the future. Some of you folks don't get it...and no explanations in a post will convince you, so I will just end there.
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Re: 8-2
Not every clarification or concern is an anti-This or a pro-That rant. Mine was an agreement with FAM's post, which I obviously thought was reasonable.
I, for one, am happy with our wins. We wouldn't have won yesterday's game last year, which is something our coach and players spoke about in the press after yesterday's game. That is improvement. As far as "turning the corner" though, there is a long way to go. Four of our seven wins come against RPI 250+ teams, and another against Seton Hill. The next two games are also against RPI 250+ teams.
My hope is that we start to knock off better teams as we enter conference play. I also hope that we don't lose to lesser teams. They are the same hopes that I've had every year, under every coach since I showed up on the Bluff in 1982,
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Bilgy wrote:
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Bilgy wrote:
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Re: 8-2
rosceaux wrote:FAM wrote:
-Yes, last year we would have lost this game and some others.
-Yes, we are better than last year
-No, we can not tell if the entire season has been turned around because we have not had the competition. Aside from Penn State and Western Kentucky our wins haven't been against anyone that is in my laymans terms talked about as very good. Also, away games in the league will be tough. Yes, the tournament was away but St. Francis was a regular game, not on their own court, and again, look at their record and look at their team. They aren't very good sports fans.
Now, we definitely already have a better team but we need to wait, HAVE to measure it agains our league games for true success. Sustainability will be the litmus test. Wednesday against a not too strong opponent and next Saturday against Robert Morris will be extremely interesting because Robert Morris has no trouble believing they can beat us. I am concerned that fans will think we have "arrived" because we have won out of league games against lower competition. If we don't have higher expectations than that, we have really sunken low and have no objectivity. It makes me think of this year with Pitt football. Their fans were so excited at their record and how well they have done but I think at the mid-point or a game or two later they had NOT beaten one team with a winning record. Their ACC conference and division sucks, and they keep having players and coaches leave for their destination job. Please, no PITT delusional football thoughts..
Good Luck Dukes
But... to suddenly proclaim Jim Jong-un as Supreme Leader of Duquesne basketball for life is quite a bit premature. Right now, the Dukes are ranked #135 in the country by Pomeroy; not cracking the upper third. They are ranked 11th in the A-10 conference, ahead of only Saint Louis, George Mason and La Salle. The Dukes are 0-1 against Top 50 teams; 2-1 vs. the 101-150's; 1-0 vs. the 151-200's; 2-0 vs. the 251-300's; and 2-0 vs. the 300+; both losses for the Dukes occurred to the two highest ranked teams that they have faced.
Let's see how this season plays out; 11 of their remaining 21 games are against current Top 100 teams. Only 6 games remain against teams currently ranked 150 and higher; the Dukes need to get two of these W's this week at home against #310 South Carolina State and #289 Robert Morris.
Finally, let's keep this in historical perspective - here are the Dukes' Pomoroy final season rankings over the last 10 years.
2015 - #207 - #11 in the A-10 out of 14 teams
2014 - #147 - #12 in the A-10 out of 13 teams
2013 - #248 - #16 in the A-10 out of 16 teams
2012 - #123 - #10 in the A-10 out of 14 teams
2011 - #60 - #4 in the A-10 out of 14 teams
2010 - #144 - #10 in the A-10 out of 14 teams
2009 - #84 - #5 in the A-10 out of 14 teams
2008 - #83 - #8 in the A-10 out of 14 teams
2007 - #213 - #10 in the A-10 out of 14 teams
2006 - #297 - #14 in the A-10 out of 14 teams
2005 - #256 - #10 in the A-10 out of 12 teams
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PhoenixRising2 wrote:rosceaux wrote:FAM wrote:
-Yes, last year we would have lost this game and some others.
-Yes, we are better than last year
-No, we can not tell if the entire season has been turned around because we have not had the competition. Aside from Penn State and Western Kentucky our wins haven't been against anyone that is in my laymans terms talked about as very good. Also, away games in the league will be tough. Yes, the tournament was away but St. Francis was a regular game, not on their own court, and again, look at their record and look at their team. They aren't very good sports fans.
Now, we definitely already have a better team but we need to wait, HAVE to measure it agains our league games for true success. Sustainability will be the litmus test. Wednesday against a not too strong opponent and next Saturday against Robert Morris will be extremely interesting because Robert Morris has no trouble believing they can beat us. I am concerned that fans will think we have "arrived" because we have won out of league games against lower competition. If we don't have higher expectations than that, we have really sunken low and have no objectivity. It makes me think of this year with Pitt football. Their fans were so excited at their record and how well they have done but I think at the mid-point or a game or two later they had NOT beaten one team with a winning record. Their ACC conference and division sucks, and they keep having players and coaches leave for their destination job. Please, no PITT delusional football thoughts..
Good Luck Dukes
But... to suddenly proclaim Jim Jong-un as Supreme Leader of Duquesne basketball for life is quite a bit premature. Right now, the Dukes are ranked #135 in the country by Pomeroy; not cracking the upper third. They are ranked 11th in the A-10 conference, ahead of only Saint Louis, George Mason and La Salle. The Dukes are 0-1 against Top 50 teams; 2-1 vs. the 101-150's; 1-0 vs. the 151-200's; 2-0 vs. the 251-300's; and 2-0 vs. the 300+; both losses for the Dukes occurred to the two highest ranked teams that they have faced.
Let's see how this season plays out; 11 of their remaining 21 games are against current Top 100 teams. Only 6 games remain against teams currently ranked 150 and higher; the Dukes need to get two of these W's this week at home against #310 South Carolina State and #289 Robert Morris.
Finally, let's keep this in historical perspective - here are the Dukes' Pomoroy final season rankings over the last 10 years.
2015 - #207 - #11 in the A-10 out of 14 teams
2014 - #147 - #12 in the A-10 out of 13 teams
2013 - #248 - #16 in the A-10 out of 16 teams
2012 - #123 - #10 in the A-10 out of 14 teams
2011 - #60 - #4 in the A-10 out of 14 teams
2010 - #144 - #10 in the A-10 out of 14 teams
2009 - #84 - #5 in the A-10 out of 14 teams
2008 - #83 - #8 in the A-10 out of 14 teams
2007 - #213 - #10 in the A-10 out of 14 teams
2006 - #297 - #14 in the A-10 out of 14 teams
2005 - #256 - #10 in the A-10 out of 12 teams
By the way, most systems now have Milwaukee in the Top 100, so that's now a big win for us.
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Re: 8-2
duq81 wrote:PhoenixRising2 wrote:rosceaux wrote:
But... to suddenly proclaim Jim Jong-un as Supreme Leader of Duquesne basketball for life is quite a bit premature. Right now, the Dukes are ranked #135 in the country by Pomeroy; not cracking the upper third. They are ranked 11th in the A-10 conference, ahead of only Saint Louis, George Mason and La Salle. The Dukes are 0-1 against Top 50 teams; 2-1 vs. the 101-150's; 1-0 vs. the 151-200's; 2-0 vs. the 251-300's; and 2-0 vs. the 300+; both losses for the Dukes occurred to the two highest ranked teams that they have faced.
Let's see how this season plays out; 11 of their remaining 21 games are against current Top 100 teams. Only 6 games remain against teams currently ranked 150 and higher; the Dukes need to get two of these W's this week at home against #310 South Carolina State and #289 Robert Morris.
Finally, let's keep this in historical perspective - here are the Dukes' Pomoroy final season rankings over the last 10 years.
2015 - #207 - #11 in the A-10 out of 14 teams
2014 - #147 - #12 in the A-10 out of 13 teams
2013 - #248 - #16 in the A-10 out of 16 teams
2012 - #123 - #10 in the A-10 out of 14 teams
2011 - #60 - #4 in the A-10 out of 14 teams
2010 - #144 - #10 in the A-10 out of 14 teams
2009 - #84 - #5 in the A-10 out of 14 teams
2008 - #83 - #8 in the A-10 out of 14 teams
2007 - #213 - #10 in the A-10 out of 14 teams
2006 - #297 - #14 in the A-10 out of 14 teams
2005 - #256 - #10 in the A-10 out of 12 teams
By the way, most systems now have Milwaukee in the Top 100, so that's now a big win for us.
And as I think you know, KenPom is highly respected and heavily used by most D-1 coaching staffs and athletic departments including Duquesne. It's a point of reference to keep this start in perspective.
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CLK wrote:
1