duq81 - maybe I'm missing something here, but I have not noticed many posters  being critical of Ferry. Maybe 2 or 3 are, but a lot more seem to find it necessary to rip on Ron. Coach Ferry needs more time, no question about it. Just as it's unreasonable to declare he is a good coach, better than Ron, based on what we have seen so far, it is also unreasonable to claim that he is an inferior coach. My unwavering stance is that we won't know for at least 2 or 3 years. We have to see how well he recruits. We have to see if he recognizes the skills and talents he needs in players to compete in the A-10 - that is as the A-10 is now constituted. I think we already know he can be successful if the A-10 becomes the equivalent of the MAAC or Northeast Conferences. We have to see what he can do with the talent he recruits. whether they improve or not. We have to see how he manages the people problems that inevitably develop - whether that is with the players, the AD, the Administration, students, alumni, the media, general public, etc.. There is much too much to evaluate, and it's going to take a few years to do it.

duq81 wrote:

Westender wrote:

CLK, I have not been following the game day coaching very closely, so I am not clear on how well Coach Ferry is doing with improving performance as the season progresses. We all know and understand that he needs time to build his program. But it is prettty clear that your assessment so far is quite different from a number of other posters here. I took note of Levon's comment that your assessment of Ferry's coaching "is not a fair assessment" of his coaching. He perceives the coaching differently than you and that's OK. However, I also took note of Levon's comment that "essentially the same STL team last year made us look foolish and totally unprepared for the ENTIRE GAME last year!". He goes on to say that, "This team was prepared for St L last night and played them tough the entire night".
Obviously, Levon is comparing Ferry's coaching with Ron Everhart's coaching. I do not want to instigate another thread about Ron's firing. Even those of us who have supported Ron haved moved on. However, as I have stated a number of times, I don't know why it continues to be necessary to build Coach Ferry up by tearing Ron Everhart down. Anybody who follows basketball, especially college basketball, knows it takes 2 or 3 years to make a legitimate judgement about the quality of coaches, their strengths and weaknesses, etc. Yet there continue to be a number of posters here who are insistent that Ferry is a much better coach than Ron. Although that is irrelevant, it is much too soon to declare Coach Ferry as the next coming of John Wooten compared to Ron. I take note of the fact that LIU Brooklyn is 9-10 and 4-3 in conference this year so far. The team I assume is mostly what Coach Ferry left behind. Does this record mean that Coach Ferry's program at LIU has "plateaued" after 2 years of winning, preceded by what - 8 years of losing or mediocre performance? Nobody can really say that, but the jury is still out and will be for several years as to whether or not Coach Ferry is a better coach than Ron Everhart and that he was a good hire. This is not a condemnation of Ferry - just a realistic opinion that much more time is needed to make that judgement.
 

Part of the problem here. is that a few posters who are angry about what happened to RE are constantly ripping Ferry to shreds. I agree that it's wrong to try to build Ferry up by ripping Ron, but it's also wrong to tolerate no criticism of RE, but to constantly knock Ferry. Some are allowing their dislike of Amodio to color their opinion of Ferry. Ferry stepped into a tough situation, and he deserves a chance set up the program the way he wants before we come to the decision that he's a horrible coach.

I don't know if you are referring to my post (if you are you should say so), but I am not letting my dislike of Amodio (no hiding that) color my view of Ferry.  My comments about Ferry are based on his game day coaching performance that I have seen this year, and I have watched just about all the games and recorded four to study.  I do not need three years to express my opinion in that regard.  I am commenting on what I have seen with the personnel he has right now this year, the decisions he has made, what he gets out of what he has, and how he manages crunch time of the close games where we have a chance to win in the closing minutes.  At this point I am not impressed with his game day coaching.  I am not going to rehash what I said in my posts as you can go back and read it.  That does not mean I do not hope he will be successful.  I think, however, based on what I see right now he will have to recruit exceptionally well to be the "next level" coach he was hired to be, as he does not appear to me as a guy who will out coach many coaches in this league. In that regard we will have to wait and see.  Others are free to disagree with me, but that is my opinion. 
 

Phildog I disagree that RE will every get a head coaching job.The reason," google" the termination letter sent by a Duquesne Board member ???????? to CBS sports. Unfortunately due to the internet this will haunt RE for the rest of his career.Try explaining and responding to the venom in that letter via an interview with a university president committee or AD. Im so so proud of our university thanks to "a board member" who sent the scarlet letter to Gary Parish.By the way this is a superior website lets keep it that way. CLKs comments are his observations. I can promiss everyone this if Coach Ferry continues to struggle in year 3 his so called supporters will turn on him only after dinning golfing or socializing with jim and his family thats the Duquesne fan base. Mark my words in 3 years the cock will crow 3 times. Welcome to Duquesne coach! 

Ironduke81 wrote:

Phildog I disagree that RE will every get a head coaching job.The reason," google" the termination letter sent by a Duquesne Board member ???????? to CBS sports. Unfortunately due to the internet this will haunt RE for the rest of his career.Try explaining and responding to the venom in that letter via an interview with a university president committee or AD. Im so so proud of our university thanks to "a board member" who sent the scarlet letter to Gary Parish.By the way this is a superior website lets keep it that way. CLKs comments are his observations. I can promiss everyone this if Coach Ferry continues to struggle in year 3 his so called supporters will turn on him only after dinning golfing or socializing with jim and his family thats the Duquesne fan base. Mark my words in 3 years the cock will crow 3 times. Welcome to Duquesne coach! 

 
Duke - you are absolutey right about what you said will happen in the 3rd year if Ferry is still struggling. Many of Ron's so-called supporters turned on him "only after dining golfing or socializing with him and his family".  I don't know who they all are or how many there were, but a bunch bailed on him and urged Amodio to fire him.

Last edited by Westender (4/18/2013 2:58 pm)

duq81 wrote:

Phildog wrote:

Ferry has more talent than RE inherited, lets hope he can win at least 10 games.

Would you really rather have Abele, Panto, Datt, Marhold, Jones, and Johnson, or would you rather have AJax, and Achara? I know which group I'd take.

 
Ron turned both Ajax and Achara into better players, and got more out of them than Nee ever did.

81, how is that not part of the discussion? More was expected of Johnson going into this season than was expected of Jackson in 2007. Jones was supposed to be ready to step into BJ's spot. Marhold started at center last year and could reasonably have been expected to improve. Everyone thought PJ Torres was going to contribute this year. Datt played well enough last year. Abele has proven that he can play.


Same group of guys last year with Monteiro, McConnell, Talley and Evans (the latter two of which had poor seasons) was a .500 team.

Where did I rip Ferry, especially over Datt?

No, I was just making the point that while the talent level wasn't as good as the Jackson-Achara combination, there were more players who returned having started or played significant minutes. Kieran was coming off surgery and AJax was a substitute the year before, and both had been badly coached. Neither had ever experienced a winning season, or much success in the A-10. Ferry inherited a group of guys who never had a sub-.500 season, and a bunch of guys had started. A couple seemed to be ready for bigger things (Marhold, Johnson, Jones).

I liked what we saw from Datt last season, but the knee and the academics scare me. I think he also had a foot or toe problem last year.

All true. Like I said, my concerns about Datt are all about grades and health. I think John Rhodes, who has done a nice job with Abele, could help Datt as well. Ajax played second fiddle for a long time, because Bryant McAllister was running the point when he got here, and then, as you suggest, because of Kojo, who was probably the most hyped bust at Duquesne since Maurice "Homesick" Drinks.

In retrospect, if Achara had stayed healthy, if Lambert and Higgins had stayed and lived up to their potential, if Ajax and B-Mac had been teamed together from the beginning, then it really would have been up to Nee's mental and emotional retirement to have a poor enough season to warrant the change. Stephen King would call these circumstances "obdurate."

duq81 wrote:

ElDuque wrote:

Where did I rip Ferry, especially over Datt?

You said "Datt played well enough last year". I thought you were insinuating that he wasn't playing well this year, due to the new coach. My mistake. I do agree with you about RE getting a job next year. There will be teams that need what he does. He raises the dead. There will be some schools that will take that, and if 5-6 years down the road, they haven't danced, but are competitive, they may move on, but they won't regret the hire. It happens. Folks at Pitt weren't mad when Walt Harris moved on, but few were mad that he was hired in the first place. He raised the dead. He didn't get them where they really wanted to go, but he got them out of the gutter, which is what RE did here. I'll be shocked if he's not in the running for some jobs.

The problem with some on this board is that you feel RE should have taken a program from decades of loosing to the promise land in such a short period of time. He did the impossible in just 3 years and then again I hate the term used Platuaed. I don't see anyone calling for Calipari to be fired, or Huggins,or stoops, or Howland, or Shaka Smart, or Petino, or Williams, any coach that has been to the top of their career achievments and not stay there every year. It's college sports. Players go pro, transfer, leave, get in trouble what ever. Some on this board loved the success of RE but since he could not get to the NCAA tourny in just six years after decades of loosing and being the laughing stock of the A10, you got greedy, PERIOD. The reason he has been know as a rebuilder is every team he turned around he got a better offer and moved on.

So he lands at Duq. and again is successful, but he did not want to move on he wanted to stay. This will blow you people away, and not many know. When Calapari left Memphis and went to Kentucky, guess who called RE, Memphis, I have held this for a while but since this continuing bashing of RE about Platuaing I cant keep it any more. This man was committed to stay at Duq. He turned them down, I was talking with him the night he got the call, and he called me the next day and apologized for not calling me back that night, due to the lengthly talk with Memphis. It was a seven figure offer and all the trimmings, but he was not about the money, he was about what he was doing at Duq and his family. So if this AD would have supported and not fired him, I would bet that this program would be on the way up again and not where it is now. 

All of a suddent the term is used that Ferry himself says we have to rebuild. Last March it was take us to the next level? which is it and why. Again I don't speculate, predict, hope, assume just facts. So I am not saying RE would not be in the same place right now but since Ferry, would your opinions be the same if RE was still here and understand that this is a down season and it happens to all successfull coaches? 
 

Scotchngars wrote:

duq81 wrote:

ElDuque wrote:

Where did I rip Ferry, especially over Datt?

You said "Datt played well enough last year". I thought you were insinuating that he wasn't playing well this year, due to the new coach. My mistake. I do agree with you about RE getting a job next year. There will be teams that need what he does. He raises the dead. There will be some schools that will take that, and if 5-6 years down the road, they haven't danced, but are competitive, they may move on, but they won't regret the hire. It happens. Folks at Pitt weren't mad when Walt Harris moved on, but few were mad that he was hired in the first place. He raised the dead. He didn't get them where they really wanted to go, but he got them out of the gutter, which is what RE did here. I'll be shocked if he's not in the running for some jobs.

The problem with some on this board is that you feel RE should have taken a program from decades of loosing to the promise land in such a short period of time. He did the impossible in just 3 years and then again I hate the term used Platuaed. I don't see anyone calling for Calipari to be fired, or Huggins,or stoops, or Howland, or Shaka Smart, or Petino, or Williams, any coach that has been to the top of their career achievments and not stay there every year. It's college sports. Players go pro, transfer, leave, get in trouble what ever. Some on this board loved the success of RE but since he could not get to the NCAA tourny in just six years after decades of loosing and being the laughing stock of the A10, you got greedy, PERIOD. The reason he has been know as a rebuilder is every team he turned around he got a better offer and moved on.

So he lands at Duq. and again is successful, but he did not want to move on he wanted to stay. This will blow you people away, and not many know. When Calapari left Memphis and went to Kentucky, guess who called RE, Memphis, I have held this for a while but since this continuing bashing of RE about Platuaing I cant keep it any more. This man was committed to stay at Duq. He turned them down, I was talking with him the night he got the call, and he called me the next day and apologized for not calling me back that night, due to the lengthly talk with Memphis. It was a seven figure offer and all the trimmings, but he was not about the money, he was about what he was doing at Duq and his family. So if this AD would have supported and not fired him, I would bet that this program would be on the way up again and not where it is now. 

All of a suddent the term is used that Ferry himself says we have to rebuild. Last March it was take us to the next level? which is it and why. Again I don't speculate, predict, hope, assume just facts. So I am not saying RE would not be in the same place right now but since Ferry, would your opinions be the same if RE was still here and understand that this is a down season and it happens to all successfull coaches? 
 

C'mon, you're comparing RE to a bunch of guys who have been to the Final Four. By the way, Howland's seat has been about as hot as a seat can get. There are tons of UCLA fans who want him fired, and he was lucky to keep his job after last year.

Ironduke81 wrote:

Hello "Is there anyone out there" Pink Floyd....Did you understand Scothmans post?

I'm sure Scotchngars doesn't need you to defend his posts. He's a big boy who can handle himself during these debates.

duq81 wrote:

Scotchngars wrote:

duq81 wrote:

You said "Datt played well enough last year". I thought you were insinuating that he wasn't playing well this year, due to the new coach. My mistake. I do agree with you about RE getting a job next year. There will be teams that need what he does. He raises the dead. There will be some schools that will take that, and if 5-6 years down the road, they haven't danced, but are competitive, they may move on, but they won't regret the hire. It happens. Folks at Pitt weren't mad when Walt Harris moved on, but few were mad that he was hired in the first place. He raised the dead. He didn't get them where they really wanted to go, but he got them out of the gutter, which is what RE did here. I'll be shocked if he's not in the running for some jobs.

The problem with some on this board is that you feel RE should have taken a program from decades of loosing to the promise land in such a short period of time. He did the impossible in just 3 years and then again I hate the term used Platuaed. I don't see anyone calling for Calipari to be fired, or Huggins,or stoops, or Howland, or Shaka Smart, or Petino, or Williams, any coach that has been to the top of their career achievments and not stay there every year. It's college sports. Players go pro, transfer, leave, get in trouble what ever. Some on this board loved the success of RE but since he could not get to the NCAA tourny in just six years after decades of loosing and being the laughing stock of the A10, you got greedy, PERIOD. The reason he has been know as a rebuilder is every team he turned around he got a better offer and moved on.

So he lands at Duq. and again is successful, but he did not want to move on he wanted to stay. This will blow you people away, and not many know. When Calapari left Memphis and went to Kentucky, guess who called RE, Memphis, I have held this for a while but since this continuing bashing of RE about Platuaing I cant keep it any more. This man was committed to stay at Duq. He turned them down, I was talking with him the night he got the call, and he called me the next day and apologized for not calling me back that night, due to the lengthly talk with Memphis. It was a seven figure offer and all the trimmings, but he was not about the money, he was about what he was doing at Duq and his family. So if this AD would have supported and not fired him, I would bet that this program would be on the way up again and not where it is now. 

All of a suddent the term is used that Ferry himself says we have to rebuild. Last March it was take us to the next level? which is it and why. Again I don't speculate, predict, hope, assume just facts. So I am not saying RE would not be in the same place right now but since Ferry, would your opinions be the same if RE was still here and understand that this is a down season and it happens to all successfull coaches? 
 

C'mon, you're comparing RE to a bunch of guys who have been to the Final Four. By the way, Howland's seat has been about as hot as a seat can get. There are tons of UCLA fans who want him fired, and he was lucky to keep his job after last year.

The point is you say he plataued and could not get us further. Yes I'm comparing because the coaches I choose to list is just a small amount of those who have achieved a level of success but can't do it every year, or every two or three, that's the point of the comparison. They all have down seasons and still remain!