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duke-passing



CURRENT RECORD 9 - 11 (4-3 in the A-10)

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4/05/2016 3:34 pm  #26


Re: LG Gill is transfering

That sucks. I had some b.s. elective history class I had to take my senior year and Gill and Ridenour were like freshman or sophomores and were in the class with me. Gill was a really nice kid and I would catch up and talk to him at the summer league every year after that. That being said I don't see this as making or breaking next season. Yes Gill was one of the better players on this roster in terms of game experience, but I think a grad transfer could easily be brought in to replace his 10 points and 6 rebs. a game he averaged last year. One of the reasons Colter and Mason took every shot was because we had a bunch of other guys who looked too scared to do anything except take one dribble and desperately look to pass. Gill could look like the definition of this throughout much of his time here. The only time Gill didn't do that on offense was when he had a wide open path to the basket or a wide open three, and his percentage there was below average.

A big problem with this team was the fact that we were a squad full of serial role players. Mason and Colter were literally the only guys who were confident enough to create their own shot or try to facilitate the offense. Players like James, Steele and Jackson look like more of those complete type of players but still need time to develop. I also think guys like Isiah Mike and Littleson come more from the player with the ability to take over the game type of mold we just haven't always had. In my opinion Gill always passed the eye test of a big time player, but could never back it up between the lines on a consistent basis. 

I'd be really happy to see a grad transfer come in with similar numbers or slightly less production at a big school that can play a more traditional power forward role. The only thing Gill was really effective enough at to miss was his rebounding, so step up next year Nakye!

Last edited by Duques102 (4/05/2016 3:41 pm)

 

4/05/2016 3:48 pm  #27


Re: LG Gill is transfering

His two other offers out of High School were Radford and James Madison. Like I said Passes the eye test, not much else. Sanders? Offers from Seton Hall, St. Johns, Temple, among others. If anything I see this as an opportunity for Nakye to step up as a leader and highly productive defensive force. A kids offers out of high school, especially in Basketball give you a pretty fair general range of their talent level, and Gill never exploded in terms of development after being here for 3 years anyway. He really did not improve greatly during his time here.

Anyone willing to bet he ends up in a similar or higher level league? I highly doubt it.

Last edited by Duques102 (4/05/2016 3:50 pm)

 

4/05/2016 4:08 pm  #28


Re: LG Gill is transfering

Duques102 wrote:

His two other offers out of High School were Radford and James Madison. Like I said Passes the eye test, not much else. Sanders? Offers from Seton Hall, St. Johns, Temple, among others. If anything I see this as an opportunity for Nakye to step up as a leader and highly productive defensive force. A kids offers out of high school, especially in Basketball give you a pretty fair general range of their talent level, and Gill never exploded in terms of development after being here for 3 years anyway. He really did not improve greatly during his time here.

Anyone willing to bet he ends up in a similar or higher level league? I highly doubt it.

What happens with grad transfers is usually one of two things. You get a kid who put up good numbers at a lower level who wants to move up. Or, you get a kid who's buried at a bigger school, and moves down to get playing time. This is what I would look to get.
 

 

4/05/2016 4:11 pm  #29


Re: LG Gill is transfering

Either way, you trade three years of experience in your own program for something rented for a year.

 

 

4/05/2016 4:13 pm  #30


Re: LG Gill is transfering

ElDuque wrote:

Either way, you trade three years of experience in your own program for something rented for a year.

 

Maybe not a bad thing with the current coach. Ovie Soko?

 

4/05/2016 4:18 pm  #31


Re: LG Gill is transfering

In response to what the ad should do. Travis Ford we could pay 100,000 a year for three years and Okie State would have paid him 2,300,000 a year for three years. ( That is how his contract was structured) It would only cost DU 300,000 over three years for a major upgrade. When I saw the predicament Okie State was in, wanting to get rid of Ford but owing all that money, I would have jumped on Ford as soon as he was available. I saw it two months ago, why didn't our AD ? The St Louis AD did !

 

4/05/2016 4:31 pm  #32


Re: LG Gill is transfering

CLK wrote:

WEB wrote:

Ferry intends to fill Gill's spot with a graduate transfer. I fail to see how Gill's transfer is in any way a reflection on Ferry. He is taking advantage of the rules. It's not like Ferry is kicking people off the team for new freshmen. Gill thinks he can find another home and better himself. Great.

WEB, I think he has pushed several kids out the door... Stevens, White, Binney, Ridenour and Watkins come to mind. Clearly Gill was not pushed out, but his loss is a major blow to the team.  This grad transfer rule really hurts the mid and low majors like Duquesne.  I would be happy to see it abolished. 
 

I don't believe he pushed out Watkins.  The others...big deal.  They weren't worth anything.  The problem I had with the previous regime was we never recruited a big man(Martins Abele does not count) and we never developed a senior-laden team in any season.  I believe that is how you win at this level.  We had an experienced team this year but it didn't work out.  

If the kid graduates and transfers, how is that in any way Jim Ferry's fault?  If you want to say he can't get us to where we need to be then fine.  I have my doubts at this point, but if you fire him....here is what you are telling potential replacements:  "You have 4 years or you are gone(3 if you count year 1 as a total lost season)."  No person in their right mind would take this job knowing that.

For the record, I was laughed at by almost every single person on this board for suggesting we go after Lonergan 1 year before GW hired him.  If we had GW's previous 5 seasons, what would this board look like?

 

 

4/05/2016 4:48 pm  #33


Re: LG Gill is transfering

WEB wrote:

If the kid graduates and transfers, how is that in any way Jim Ferry's fault?  If you want to say he can't get us to where we need to be then fine.  I have my doubts at this point, but if you fire him....here is what you are telling potential replacements:  "You have 4 years or you are gone(3 if you count year 1 as a total lost season)."  No person in their right mind would take this job knowing that.

For the record, I was laughed at by almost every single person on this board for suggesting we go after Lonergan 1 year before GW hired him.  If we had GW's previous 5 seasons, what would this board look like?

 

This is what folks don't want to hear. No one is lined up to come here. All they would see is that Ferry got 4 years, and was fired after his best season. We would end up with a Danny Nee type retread that had no other options.
 

 

4/05/2016 4:59 pm  #34


Re: LG Gill is transfering

Wildwood13 wrote:

In response to what the ad should do. Travis Ford we could pay 100,000 a year for three years and Okie State would have paid him 2,300,000 a year for three years. ( That is how his contract was structured) It would only cost DU 300,000 over three years for a major upgrade. When I saw the predicament Okie State was in, wanting to get rid of Ford but owing all that money, I would have jumped on Ford as soon as he was available. I saw it two months ago, why didn't our AD ? The St Louis AD did !

If I was going to get paid 2.4MM a year regardless of where I worked, Duquesne would not be on the list of potential destinations.

 

4/05/2016 5:11 pm  #35


Re: LG Gill is transfering

Wildwood13 wrote:

In response to what the ad should do. Travis Ford we could pay 100,000 a year for three years and Okie State would have paid him 2,300,000 a year for three years. ( That is how his contract was structured) It would only cost DU 300,000 over three years for a major upgrade. When I saw the predicament Okie State was in, wanting to get rid of Ford but owing all that money, I would have jumped on Ford as soon as he was available. I saw it two months ago, why didn't our AD ? The St Louis AD did !

What makes you think he would accept only $100,000 per year in compensation? He's a good coach and has much more bargaining power than we do. Plus, you are completely ignoring the main issue: buying out ferry's significant contract

 

4/05/2016 5:11 pm  #36


Re: LG Gill is transfering

ElDuque wrote:

Either way, you trade three years of experience in your own program for something rented for a year.

 

Yeah but three years of experience doesn't help when you still aren't a good player. Fosha has experience with the program.......


Roll Dukes Roll
 

4/05/2016 5:19 pm  #37


Re: LG Gill is transfering

WEB, one of the reason you are a lightning rod is that you make or imply statements about posters that are not true.  I never said or even implied that Ferry should be fired now because of Gill transferring as you brought up in your reply to me above.  I have consistently stated he will and should be given one more year and possibly two more years.  In my 3/28 post I made my position on Ferry clear.  This is an excerpt from my post:

" I do agree that Duquesne's goal absolutely must be to be a top level program in the A10 and getting DU to the NCAA. Given what Ron accomplished at DU, however, I think DU made a serious mistake in pulling the trigger too soon.  Unlike what you stated it was a shock to the basketball community.  Guys in the Pittsburgh media are still pointing to that as a bonehead move. I also think that it would have been a mistake to fire Ferry this year.  He deserves one more or possibly two more years to see if he can get DU to the top part of the League.  I honestly have my doubts about Ferry but still think he deserves a shot.  If he crashes and burns next year he most likely will be gone.  But it will be viewed as fair, and who knows maybe he will surprise us."

Last edited by CLK (4/05/2016 5:35 pm)

 

4/05/2016 5:34 pm  #38


Re: LG Gill is transfering

Travis Ford accepted the St. Louis job, which is very similar to the D U job with the exception of the Rick Majerous years and after effect. And Duquesne 2012 when talking please educate your self before you speak.  Ford is gaurenteed 2.4 million a year for three years from Oklahoma State less what he receives from his next employer. In essence DU could only pay him a dollar. Therefore he cost you a dollar a year and to buy out Ferry cost you three dollars.

 

4/05/2016 5:49 pm  #39


Re: LG Gill is transfering

Y

Wildwood13 wrote:

Travis Ford accepted the St. Louis job, which is very similar to the D U job with the exception of the Rick Majerous years and after effect. And Duquesne 2012 when talking please educate your self before you speak. Ford is gaurenteed 2.4 million a year for three years from Oklahoma State less what he receives from his next employer. In essence DU could only pay him a dollar. Therefore he cost you a dollar a year and to buy out Ferry cost you three dollars.

. You need to take a look at St. Louis' arena, and then look at the joke we play in.
 

 

4/05/2016 6:00 pm  #40


Re: LG Gill is transfering

Gill's chance of playing in the NCAAs probably spiked a little.

 

4/05/2016 6:12 pm  #41


Re: LG Gill is transfering

Wildwood13 wrote:

Travis Ford accepted the St. Louis job, which is very similar to the D U job with the exception of the Rick Majerous years and after effect. And Duquesne 2012 when talking please educate your self before you speak.  Ford is gaurenteed 2.4 million a year for three years from Oklahoma State less what he receives from his next employer. In essence DU could only pay him a dollar. Therefore he cost you a dollar a year and to buy out Ferry cost you three dollars.

You aren't making any sense. First, Ford would never accept a three year contract from us. Second, he certainly wouldn't accept such little compensation. A three year deal would leave him in a horrible position with no leverage and accepting so little in compensation would mean that if he got fired by Duquesne with years remaining on his deal that we would essentially owe him nothing. You think his agent and lawyer would allow him to accept such a dumb deal? And we are not equal to slu. They paid crews $1 million per year. We aren't offering close to that

 

4/05/2016 6:16 pm  #42


Re: LG Gill is transfering

duq81 wrote:

Y

Wildwood13 wrote:

Travis Ford accepted the St. Louis job, which is very similar to the D U job with the exception of the Rick Majerous years and after effect. And Duquesne 2012 when talking please educate your self before you speak. Ford is gaurenteed 2.4 million a year for three years from Oklahoma State less what he receives from his next employer. In essence DU could only pay him a dollar. Therefore he cost you a dollar a year and to buy out Ferry cost you three dollars.

. You need to take a look at St. Louis' arena, and then look at the joke we play in.
 

 
Good point, was not aware it was that nice, I thought they still played at several venues like they use to prior to the construction of that new facility.

 

4/05/2016 6:19 pm  #43


Re: LG Gill is transfering

He won't get many minutes on an NCAAcaliber team.  He is so limited, can't dribble, is a low percentage 3-point shooter, has no game in the paint.  He does occasionally rebound but also disappears in that respect. 
I wish him luck, but don't see his departure as a great loss.  I've known about this for awhile and haven't lost any sleep over it.  He would be even less effective without the two senior guards to draw the defense on the perimeter.  I recall more complaints about him launching I'll-advised 3's than I do positive comments about him helping the team win.  Let's not over react.  If we can replace him with a guy who understands the game and makes the team better, I'll be satisfied. 
As I seem to recall he was always "threatening" to transfer.  Don't let the door hit you on the way out!

 

4/05/2016 6:43 pm  #44


Re: LG Gill is transfering

levon1975 wrote:

He won't get many minutes on an NCAAcaliber team. He is so limited, can't dribble, is a low percentage 3-point shooter, has no game in the paint. He does occasionally rebound but also disappears in that respect.
I wish him luck, but don't see his departure as a great loss. I've known about this for awhile and haven't lost any sleep over it. He would be even less effective without the two senior guards to draw the defense on the perimeter. I recall more complaints about him launching I'll-advised 3's than I do positive comments about him helping the team win. Let's not over react. If we can replace him with a guy who understands the game and makes the team better, I'll be satisfied.
As I seem to recall he was always "threatening" to transfer. Don't let the door hit you on the way out!

Ferry is gonna sink or swim with the young guys. I'd rather see Mike, Sanders, and Robinson get those minutes. Barring them getting an impact grad transfer, Lewis will be the only senior next year. The goal should be to get this team clicking late in the year. If that happens, it would be reasonable to expect 17-18 to be something special. If not, Ferry could be on the way out. The ooc will be soft again (although I'd like to see them do one buy game vs a top team). They need to blow through it, and then find a way to win at least 8 games in league play. The A10 Tournament is in Pittsburgh, so I'd like to see them win at least 2 games.
 

 

4/05/2016 6:44 pm  #45


Re: LG Gill is transfering

Dukes2012 wrote:

Wildwood13 wrote:

Travis Ford accepted the St. Louis job, which is very similar to the D U job with the exception of the Rick Majerous years and after effect. And Duquesne 2012 when talking please educate your self before you speak.  Ford is gaurenteed 2.4 million a year for three years from Oklahoma State less what he receives from his next employer. In essence DU could only pay him a dollar. Therefore he cost you a dollar a year and to buy out Ferry cost you three dollars.

You aren't making any sense. First, Ford would never accept a three year contract from us. Second, he certainly wouldn't accept such little compensation. A three year deal would leave him in a horrible position with no leverage and accepting so little in compensation would mean that if he got fired by Duquesne with years remaining on his deal that we would essentially owe him nothing. You think his agent and lawyer would allow him to accept such a dumb deal? And we are not equal to slu. They paid crews $1 million per year. We aren't offering close to that

 
First of all Jim Crews made 600,000 a year not a million and he had three years left on his contract. I never stated to offer Ford three years. Secondly he does not cost you anything the first three years, because he is gaurenteed 2.4 million from Ok State less what he gets from his next employer, so who in their right mind is going to give him much more because all that does is reduce Ok States obligation.  And, yes years four and five have to be negotiated by D U.  Did the light bulb turn on yet, regarding the first three years of the contract.

 

4/05/2016 7:07 pm  #46


Re: LG Gill is transfering

Wildwood13 wrote:

Dukes2012 wrote:

Wildwood13 wrote:

Travis Ford accepted the St. Louis job, which is very similar to the D U job with the exception of the Rick Majerous years and after effect. And Duquesne 2012 when talking please educate your self before you speak.  Ford is gaurenteed 2.4 million a year for three years from Oklahoma State less what he receives from his next employer. In essence DU could only pay him a dollar. Therefore he cost you a dollar a year and to buy out Ferry cost you three dollars.

You aren't making any sense. First, Ford would never accept a three year contract from us. Second, he certainly wouldn't accept such little compensation. A three year deal would leave him in a horrible position with no leverage and accepting so little in compensation would mean that if he got fired by Duquesne with years remaining on his deal that we would essentially owe him nothing. You think his agent and lawyer would allow him to accept such a dumb deal? And we are not equal to slu. They paid crews $1 million per year. We aren't offering close to that

 
First of all Jim Crews made 600,000 a year not a million and he had three years left on his contract. I never stated to offer Ford three years. Secondly he does not cost you anything the first three years, because he is gaurenteed 2.4 million from Ok State less what he gets from his next employer, so who in their right mind is going to give him much more because all that does is reduce Ok States obligation.  And, yes years four and five have to be negotiated by D U.  Did the light bulb turn on yet, regarding the first three years of the contract.

http://m.stltoday.com/sports/college/slu/crews-future-at-slu-uncertain/article_9ec0d123-d411-55c2-a554-556d376134e3.html
Wrong again. The SLU board claimed his salary was $1 million but the paper says his base salary was $850K.
I don't know how many ways I can explain this to you but you cannot just manipulate contracts like that. Clearly you have little understanding of contract law. If we paid him a salary far below the average for a school at our level, OSU would file a lawsuit since they are on the hook for the difference. Paying him $1 would be considered bad faith. You can stop with the snarky comments anytime now

 

4/05/2016 7:10 pm  #47


Re: LG Gill is transfering

duq81 wrote:

Y

Wildwood13 wrote:

Travis Ford accepted the St. Louis job, which is very similar to the D U job with the exception of the Rick Majerous years and after effect. And Duquesne 2012 when talking please educate your self before you speak. Ford is gaurenteed 2.4 million a year for three years from Oklahoma State less what he receives from his next employer. In essence DU could only pay him a dollar. Therefore he cost you a dollar a year and to buy out Ferry cost you three dollars.

. You need to take a look at St. Louis' arena, and then look at the joke we play in.
 

 
Works for St. Joes NCAA Lasalle & Bonnie's sweet 16.....This program is a mess . Please stop the excuses. It's just a falicy. Ron never made excuses he was just undermined by AD department. Unfortunately Chuck blew it 5.5 million next President & AD please stand up and stop the ineptitude.

 

4/05/2016 7:22 pm  #48


Re: LG Gill is transfering

Ironduke81 wrote:

duq81 wrote:

Y

Wildwood13 wrote:

Travis Ford accepted the St. Louis job, which is very similar to the D U job with the exception of the Rick Majerous years and after effect. And Duquesne 2012 when talking please educate your self before you speak. Ford is gaurenteed 2.4 million a year for three years from Oklahoma State less what he receives from his next employer. In essence DU could only pay him a dollar. Therefore he cost you a dollar a year and to buy out Ferry cost you three dollars.

. You need to take a look at St. Louis' arena, and then look at the joke we play in.
 

 
Works for St. Joes NCAA Lasalle & Bonnie's sweet 16.....This program is a mess . Please stop the excuses. It's just a falicy. Ron never made excuses he was just undermined by AD department. Unfortunately Chuck blew it 5.5 million next President & AD please stand up and stop the ineptitude.

I didn't know Travis Ford was hired by Bona, LaSalle, and St. Joe's. Who knew??
 

 

4/05/2016 7:22 pm  #49


Re: LG Gill is transfering

CLK wrote:

WEB, one of the reason you are a lightning rod is that you make or imply statements about posters that are not true.  I never said or even implied that Ferry should be fired now because of Gill transferring as you brought up in your reply to me above.  I have consistently stated he will and should be given one more year and possibly two more years.  In my 3/28 post I made my position on Ferry clear.  This is an excerpt from my post:

" I do agree that Duquesne's goal absolutely must be to be a top level program in the A10 and getting DU to the NCAA. Given what Ron accomplished at DU, however, I think DU made a serious mistake in pulling the trigger too soon.  Unlike what you stated it was a shock to the basketball community.  Guys in the Pittsburgh media are still pointing to that as a bonehead move. I also think that it would have been a mistake to fire Ferry this year.  He deserves one more or possibly two more years to see if he can get DU to the top part of the League.  I honestly have my doubts about Ferry but still think he deserves a shot.  If he crashes and burns next year he most likely will be gone.  But it will be viewed as fair, and who knows maybe he will surprise us."

I never said or implied you or anyone wanted him fired. All I said was doing so after 4 years significantly lessens the pool of people who'd take a risk knowing you need to produce in 4 years at a place that hasnt produced in 50.

I stand by my Lonergan statement.

 

4/05/2016 8:55 pm  #50


Re: LG Gill is transfering

They better weaken their OOC schedule if they expect to win 15 games next season. 

Ferry's on his way to a 20-loss season because not only is he starting two new guards and one new forward but their replacements will be freshmen or first-year players. They are going to get eaten up.You build a program by constant recruitment and then using those recruits to gain experience so they can step into starting roles when required. This program is about ready to fall off the table because Ferry was trying to add a win or two in a season that he knew was fading away at the expense of needed plying experience for others. He failed, unless of course the CBI is your bar to meet every year.

 

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