You what looks to be pretty clear, Ferry is selling the 17-17 season as proof of an upward trend. Kids don't know how the season unfolded, they way we do. All they know is that we went from 12 wins, to 17. Program on the rise! "Kid, we need you to take the next step." "blah, blah blah." Hey, if Ferry can sell last season as proof of a program on the rise, more power to him. Sign a good class, and take another step forward this year (19-20 wins), and I might begin to drink the Kool-Aid.

I really don't think "stars" in recruiting mean very much unless you are talking top recognized 150 talent or better.  We have seen examples of kids coming out of HS with 3 or 4 stars that did not pan out. For example, Jackson was rated a 4 star.  I think the best thing is for a coach to have a consistent, proven, system and recruits and develops players to fit needs. The key is recognizing potential 2, 3 or 4 stars and developing that potential that benefits the team. 

levon1975 wrote:

There is truth to your comments on the "star" system of rating players; but 4-star recruits should have a somewhat greater chance of success, because they normally check off the boxes on size, quickness, scoring etc.; but they are even more important in attracting more quality players in general. Signing 4-star recruits for Duquesne can open the doors of other top players. To the players stars mean a lot!

The top players tend to be aware of each other. When you sign one, it opens the eyes of the others.
 

Bilgy wrote:

That is exactly what happened in 1965 when Lew Alcindor of New York committed to UCLA.  The second best recruit, Lucius Allen of Kansas City, then committed to UCLA.

UCLA was coming off of two National Championships, so I wouldn't quite make that comparison.
 

Dukes2012 wrote:

https://www.prephoops.com/2016/08/recruiting-update-dwayne-cohill-2018/

Here's another article about Dwayne Cohill. It still feels like a longshot but a shot none the less. Seems like it is up to carmody to make this happen. I get the feeling that Cohill would want them to be a package deal for a program like Duquesne, based on his comments

Well, why wouldn't you do a deal like that? If Red Manning would have done the package deal for Billy Knight, we might still be a power.
 

duq81 wrote:

You what looks to be pretty clear, Ferry is selling the 17-17 season as proof of an upward trend. Kids don't know how the season unfolded, they way we do. All they know is that we went from 12 wins, to 17. Program on the rise! "Kid, we need you to take the next step." "blah, blah blah." Hey, if Ferry can sell last season as proof of a program on the rise, more power to him. Sign a good class, and take another step forward this year (19-20 wins), and I might begin to drink the Kool-Aid.

He doesn't have to sell it as an upward trend, it IS an upward trend. That's why I disagreed with a poster the other day who referred to Ferry as a dud. He's not. People give this guy 000000 credit. He doesn't deserve a statue or a street named after him, but taking a program that was literally a completely bare cupboard and going from 8 to 13 to 12 to 17 is improvement. I think we sometimes get so frustrated with not being where we want to be now that we don't acknowledge where we've been and where we're going. Had he not made what we're in my opinion some boneheaded coaching moves late in games or not reigning guys in from just taking ridiculous shots early in possessions we could have easily had a twenty win season and at least one win over a ranked opponnent (the kid was right, we should have beat no.23 Dayton at home last year).

Recruits are improving year over year. Wins have gone up year over year. It's taking more time than any of us wanted and some unrealistically expected but that's the reality when your program falls that far. That's why I laugh when I see a post saying he can sell it as an upward trend. Ha! It is. There were good and bad periods of the season last year, we are all guilty of mostly remembering just the bad parts.

I think your in a good place when your recruiting story is we have improved our win total basically each year, almost won 20 games last year, and if you are a 3 or four star guy, you can come here and get us over that 20 win, serious post season tourney hump and do it starting as a freshman and being the man for four years. Also remember, almost all of these guys visiting talk about how much they like the coaches and how much of a family type atmosphere they see here, it's good to see the coaches are able to project that to recruits.

All my half compliments aside, Ferry needs to again improve the win total and snag a couple more conference games to keep his job for me, mostly because of how long it has taken to get where we are. As soon as he starts to stagnate or take a step back, I'd say cut the cord. But he isn't a dud, and talking about the overall improvement of the program is a fact, not a sales job. Give the guy the credit he deserves, which is some, but definitely no praise to this point.

Last edited by Duques102 (9/13/2016 1:32 pm)

ElDuque wrote:

Duques102 wrote:

duq81 wrote:

You what looks to be pretty clear, Ferry is selling the 17-17 season as proof of an upward trend. Kids don't know how the season unfolded, they way we do. All they know is that we went from 12 wins, to 17. Program on the rise! "Kid, we need you to take the next step." "blah, blah blah." Hey, if Ferry can sell last season as proof of a program on the rise, more power to him. Sign a good class, and take another step forward this year (19-20 wins), and I might begin to drink the Kool-Aid.

He doesn't have to sell it as an upward trend, it IS an upward trend. That's why I disagreed with a poster the other day who referred to Ferry as a dud. He's not. People give this guy 000000 credit. He doesn't deserve a statue or a street named after him, but taking a program that was literally a completely bare cupboard and going from 8 to 13 to 12 to 17 is improvement. I think we sometimes get so frustrated with not being where we want to be now that we don't acknowledge where we've been and where we're going. Had he not made what we're in my opinion some boneheaded coaching moves late in games or not reigning guys in from just taking ridiculous shots early in possessions we could have easily had a twenty win season and at least one win over a ranked opponnent (the kid was right, we should have beat no.23 Dayton at home last year).

Recruits are improving year over year. Wins have gone up year over year. It's taking more time than any of us wanted and some unrealistically expected but that's the reality when your program falls that far. That's why I laugh when I see a post saying he can sell it as an upward trend. Ha! It is. There were good and bad periods of the season last year, we are all guilty of mostly remembering just the bad parts.

I think your in a good place when your recruiting story is we have improved our win total basically each year, almost won 20 games last year, and if you are a 3 or four star guy, you can come here and get us over that 20 win, serious post season tourney hump and do it starting as a freshman and being the man for four years. Also remember, almost all of these guys visiting talk about how much they like the coaches and how much of a family type atmosphere they see here, it's good to see the coaches are able to project that to recruits.

All my half compliments aside, Ferry needs to again improve the win total and snag a couple more conference games to keep his job for me, mostly because of how long it has taken to get where we are. As soon as he starts to stagnate or take a step back, I'd say cut the cord. But he isn't a dud, and talking about the overall improvement of the program is a fact, not a sales job. Give the guy the credit he deserves, which is some, but definitely no praise to this point.

 
i didn't realize we were so successful the past four years. I must have been asleep.

 
Great post there el duque, literally didn't even use the word successful one time in my entire post. Really respect that insightful addition from you. Your always good for that! Perhaps you see marginal improvement as synonymous to successful? Wait I just realized I don't care what you think.

Last edited by Duques102 (9/13/2016 2:47 pm)

ElDuque wrote:

You said we almost won 20 games last year. I would take that as successful. IMHO, we didn't come close to that. Thus, my sarcastic comment.

Peace.

17 is not close to 20......hmmm. Again, I never said this was a successful program under Ferry. Take it however you want.

Last edited by Duques102 (9/13/2016 5:42 pm)

This is the kind of thing that drives a coach crazy.  Purdue, on the eve of Banks visit to DU is making a pitch to this kid.

Russ Wood ‏Coaches from UT San Antonio, Duquesne, UNC Greensboro, and Purdue are at St. Petersburg (FL) to see 2017 SG Darius Banks.

Last edited by CLK (9/13/2016 6:00 pm)

Duques102 wrote:

duq81 wrote:

You what looks to be pretty clear, Ferry is selling the 17-17 season as proof of an upward trend. Kids don't know how the season unfolded, they way we do. All they know is that we went from 12 wins, to 17. Program on the rise! "Kid, we need you to take the next step." "blah, blah blah." Hey, if Ferry can sell last season as proof of a program on the rise, more power to him. Sign a good class, and take another step forward this year (19-20 wins), and I might begin to drink the Kool-Aid.

He doesn't have to sell it as an upward trend, it IS an upward trend. That's why I disagreed with a poster the other day who referred to Ferry as a dud. He's not. People give this guy 000000 credit. He doesn't deserve a statue or a street named after him, but taking a program that was literally a completely bare cupboard and going from 8 to 13 to 12 to 17 is improvement. I.

Ok, not going to restart the whole "Ron Debate" but it is ludicrous to hear Ferry, the media commentators and the admin try to point out that Ferry took over after the equivalent of the Danny Nee era! The team had had its first run of winning seasons since the Nixon Ford administration, actual winning seasons with post season appearances!  Ferry has yet to have one winning seasons. And I am sick of the "Well Ron was on a short leash.....and  "his players were all leaving.......blah blah blah. Ron had good recruits coming in, and no one knows how they would have developed or how things would have went. I just see Jim Ferry, losing guys every year, just like Ron did, and during that horrible stretch, watch his teams get out coached and out played as his teams blew leads against quality opponents that "good coaches" would have managed to eek out a win or two. He has also proven that he can't coach or hire people to coach defenses!  So with that in mind, five years in and we are further from the NIT, let alone the Big Dance, than when he was hired, so yeah this fan who is sick of Stalinesque five year plans, gives him ZERO CREDIT!!!!!!
 

Duq81, that is reasonable on Ferry beginning and unfortunately not stepping the program up. Now the mentioned newcomers and possible recruits could help make a difference but remember, they all look good on paper and it's the adjustment to the college game and college life that determines the stars and the also rans.

Another thing about RE who I liked, he like most other Duquesne fired coaches did not progress in the D-1 ranks after Duquesne, in fact no other D-1 program has landed him to rebuild it. Maybe if Huggy retires he could get that gig, I would hope so.

CLK, I haven't posted in a long while, but I've been reading the Board and your recruiting updates are most helpful and at least provide some hope of an upward trend.  El D all I can say to your post is AMEN!!!