Remember when a former insider posted some years ago, and I'm paraphrasing, Jim Ferry is a guy who is hard to say no to.  Seems all three of these recruits symbolize the very view in their comments.  Face it,  Ferry starts Sanders, Smith, the Mikes and Blackman, none of whom ever played prime time together before this year; didn't even know each other for the most part.  Ask yourself, how many wins would Archie or Schmidt have with this group?   

Levon seems to me on the money in his evaluations of team and coach. While I respect CLK and some of the more thoughtful opinions, to fire Ferry now is to start over.  Don't see DU taking another disastrous coaching gamble under another new hire without giving this coach another year.

That is a good question '81; but I know you are knowledgeable about the recruiting process and realize that players are being recruited 2-3 years in advance of their graduation from high school.  I think we all agree that Ferry's first class was just a hastily assembled group of guys that may have been headed to lesser leagues than the A-10 and Ferry was able to hustle enough to put together enough bodies to make a team, but in April, there typically isn't much left.  So, in year two and three he was still trying to play catch-up on players that were already being recruited for 1-2 years by other schools.  He did manage to bring in LG Gill . Eric James, Darius, Jordan Robinson, and Jeremiah as freshmen, and made a strong run at Ryan Luther, and several other high quality players who chose to play elsewhere.  If you recall, we were pretty happy with some of the recruits he signed in those years.  As always with recruiting, some guys achieve, some over achieve and some under achieve He also brought in some transfers, some who didn't cut it, along with Micah Mason, Rene Castro, and later Tarin Smith.  All three have been contributors, with Micah being outstanding.  Last year, was the first year they brought at least two legitimate A10 Freshman, of impact, the result of several years of groundwork.  Hopefully, there are 2-3 more in the incoming class.  I think at this point, you need to let the process play itself out.  It would be foolish to start from scratch again!

81 is dead on. His examples are good ones. Look at Mark Schmidt at Bona. He started from a worse place than Ferry did had a 500 conference record in year 4, a winning conference record and A10 championship in year 5, and then winning conference records in 3 of the next 5 seasons. Including this one. Ferry's best conference record is 6-12. 

The results just are not there. Only the excuses.

Wow!  What are some of you basing your keep Ferry thoughts on?  Since year 2, all of the recruits have been his with time to recruit.  HE recruited them!  He has coached them.  The program is in shambles.  Are you drinking the Kool-Aid?  There are 20 students outside the pep-band that attend.  The attendance is inflated and many games have had 500 people.  Folks aren't giving money and there is no support.  This is year 5.  He hasn't had a winning season folks.  He can't coach - he isn't recruiting anyone really good- they go to other schools.  Please wake up...if he is back next year will be another disaster.  May I remind many of you how you said these players were so good...not just the freshman he recruited and that we would have a good year.  You guys get what you deserve.  You are so used to a losing program that you will accept anything.  You are afraid of starting over!!!  FOLKS, THE PROGRAM NEEDS TO START OVER...IT NEEDS TO START OVER...IT NEEDS TO START OVER.

levon1975 wrote:

T.  I think we all agree that Ferry's first class was just a hastily assembled group of guys that may have been headed to lesser leagues than the A-10 and Ferry was able to hustle enough to put together enough bodies to make a team, but in April, there typically isn't much left. !

Yeah, I get that and give him a pass, so let's consider this Year #4. Year #4 and he has had one .500 season, and is going to lose 20 games with "his" recruits."  What possible world is this acceptable?

I still maintain as I posted on my odds thread,  0-4 or 1-3 to finish the year, and then lose the play in game, Ferry is history!
 

Dukes2012 wrote:

FAM, my reason for thinking he comes back is simple. Lewis and mike could likely be gone if ferry is fired, as will our recruits. In my opinion, that would start another three-year rebuilding cycle. I don't have the patience for that. I'd rather see Lewis, mike, walker, and wheeler on the court next year in Duquesne uniforms, even if it means ferry is the coach.

I've been giving that idea my grudging "Yeah I'll stick around for that."  Of course I am on record as saying Ferry is my last rebuild, I am done when he is canned.

ElDuque wrote:

If it takes another coach 3 years and you find that frustrating, remember Ferry is giving himself 5 more years.

​Everhart needed 2, by the way. And that was without the benefit of some key recruits lost because of the shooting.

Oh I'm not comparing ferry's ability to coach to ron's. I'm just saying in my estimation, the quickest path to competitiveness goes through guaranteeing that Walker, wheeler, mike and Lewis remain dukes.

The Dome wrote:

2012 why would you think Walker or Djonkam get off the bench for more than a 4 -5 minutes a game. Ferry has shown an absolute aversion to playing big. It's also hysterical to me that he cries about GW's size and not having JRob when he couldn't even get off the bench. And BTW as was already pointed out Stallings kept everyone when he took over and who is to say Mike & Lewis aren't disgusted with losing and are already looking to get out!!!!!!

Pitt was an outlier. That almost never happens. All of Ron's recruits went elsewhere when he was fired. Plus, Pitt's recruits weren't studs by any stretch of the imagination. I'm more concerned about keeping the freshmen we already have though. Other programs would be knocking down the door to poach them if ferry is fired. It happens all the time.  This is the first time we have had a strong young core in place since Ron was here. I wouldn't be so quick to throw that away, as there is no guarantee that the next coach will succeed.

The Dome wrote:

I would be much more concerned with the players who have never lost in their careers getting sick and tired of losing and are you of the belief that our incoming class is better than what Pitt brought in last year? Kithcart if I'm not mistaken was a 4 star and Manigualt 3.

It could very well be. Wheeler and Walker are 3 stars and Pitt's recruits did absolutely nothing this year. BTW, if Lewis and mike decide to leave on their own, then there's absolutely no reason to keep ferry. They are his saving grace right now. My POV is not an affirmation of ferry, but rather an appreciation of having two really good players in one class.

Ferry has to go, he has demonstrated that he is clueless when it comes to coaching. ( to many inabilities to mention ) His recruiting has been terrible except for this years class and he got extremely lucky that Mason had to move close to home. The attendance figures are ridiculous and student support as well as alumni support are at an all time low. I also would not want to lose Mike or Lewis. It is Harpers job to talk to these recruits and the players mentioned above, as well as the assistant who recruited them to stay. You keep the assistant so the players have some one to relate to and where would this assistant go any ways ? Harper has to show the players how the recent coaching changes worked at George Mason, Fordham and Oklahoma State just to name a few. The only problem that Duquesne faces, is that there are going to be a lot of coaches at big schools or conferences getting fired at the end of this year. The only attractive aspect that we have is Mike, Lewis and incoming class, so Harper has his work cut out for him to keep the players and find a good, personable coach. Good luck.

Wildwood13 wrote:

Ferry has to go, he has demonstrated that he is clueless when it comes to coaching. ( to many inabilities to mention ) His recruiting has been terrible except for this years class and he got extremely lucky that Mason had to move close to home. The attendance figures are ridiculous and student support as well as alumni support are at an all time low. I also would not want to lose Mike or Lewis. It is Harpers job to talk to these recruits and the players mentioned above, as well as the assistant who recruited them to stay. You keep the assistant so the players have some one to relate to and where would this assistant go any ways ? Harper has to show the players how the recent coaching changes worked at George Mason, Fordham and Oklahoma State just to name a few. The only problem that Duquesne faces, is that there are going to be a lot of coaches at big schools or conferences getting fired at the end of this year. The only attractive aspect that we have is Mike, Lewis and incoming class, so Harper has his work cut out for him to keep the players and find a good, personable coach. Good luck.

Totally agree with this, Ferry is a bum and must go. I can't think of any team off the top of my head that has been successful consistently in spite of a head coaches shortcomings, something Ferry possesses in spades.

I think these keep Ferry for one more year responses is a direct result of the fear of losing the mikes and the freshman. I think wheeler and walker can help contribute next year, but at the same time these guys aren't top 100 recruits or even 4 stars. There are a hell of a lot of 3 star guys out there and a good coach stepping in should be able to recruit those level guys in our league, especially if he has a brand new state of the art facility to pimp out in terms of recruiting. At the end of the day we have no idea how these guys will pan out anyway until they get here so for me, while it is a good class I don't think it is "can't miss".

The two freshman are a different story. Definitely the two best freshman we've had since tj and both seem to have very high ceilings in terms of future development. They are the type of guys who could be impact players on every single team in our league and probably a lot of power 5 schools. We should be doing everything we can to get them to stay but at the end of the day, the positives to keeping two players are not going to overcome the negatives brought on by Ferrys coaching. If we bring in a young charismatic guy I like our chances of keeping them with the other changes being reported around the program.

The fact that we had more than 1-3 OOC losses is more than enough proof that Ferry is a terrible coach. Watching in person you could see the absolute gulf in talent between us and the directional schools that beat us, and we still couldn't win.

Guys, with that logic the best case scenario to keeping Ferry because of his recruits would be us becoming LIU Brooklyn. A bunch of losing seasons before Ferry hits the lottery with one or two recruits, has brief success with those players, and things go back to crap when they graduate/transfer. Again, this would be a best case scenario.

Walker sounds like a similar version of I.Mike.  

Djonkam should get minutes underneath, but with Darius graduating, our tallest returner is JRob and Nakye at 6'8". In terms of pure height, we are (and will be) incredibly undersized underneath. Although, both those guys play much taller than they are and just eat rebounds. 

As long as the norm isn't playing I.Mike/Walker as the power forward, this might be okay. It'd be nice if they rotate heavily to keep bodies fresh, because Djonkam, Nakye and Jrob are going to take a pounding. God forbid they get into foul trouble.