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Why do you guys think he was so successful the previous year with Dambrot but the second year he did not improve and got lost? Wildwood13, the PG position was manned by committee (Mike, Tarin and Rene) in Mike's sophomore year, so Mike had plenty of opportunities to have the ball in his hands to start the offense. And on top of that, Mike was never a big assist guy as a PG. As a junior, Mike was pretty much playing the #2 guard position, playing without the ball. That really hurt Mike. Why do you guys think he was so successful the previous year with Dambrot but the second year he did not improve and got lost? That's a good question. I'll take a stab at it. I'd say he got lost because the team was much stronger than the first year. Lewis was a focal point in Dambrot's first year. He had the ball in his hands often. Lewis got lost in the second year with Carry handling the ball mostly, and, as stated many times here, he just didn't know how to deal with his role. Better talent around him covered up his talent a bit. He blended in more. He wasn't the man. I imagine that was hard to take for Mike. It all played on him and he just got rattled. He really wasn't playing well at all. He needed a change of scenery, a different approach. Mike is a decent player. But unfortunately, he's really just an average player. You can't win much when "your best player" is average. I feel pretty sure that Duquesne's roster is going to steadily improve and stabilize. When it does,we'll look back at the first two rosters and wonder how the Dukes even won as many games as they did. There's a long way to go yet. Coach D started Lewis in every game, until he could no longer justify the lineup, but there was little or no evidence that he was helping the team win. Granted he had a short leash, but Mike just never looked comfortable playing off the ball as a 2. He wasn’t getting open for his shot, and when he did; he rarely hit the shots. I think Mike did try to improve his defense; but was never going to be a strong defender. So I don’t buy the point that he was disrespted by the Coach. I was at the Pitt game. Mike Lewis took one shot before the last shot. Why do you think that was? Mike was struggling. If you watched Mike you know he was more of a catch and shoot guy. He was not a player who could consistently create his own shot, particularly against better competition. Against Pitt he just could not get open. I remember watching him and wondering if he was hurt because he seemed to standing still or running at half speed. Look I am not going to try to change your views. It seems that you think Coach D is evil, and we need to hire Mr. Rodgers. I don't think Coach D is evil. Last edited by gary2 (4/12/2019 2:51 pm) Why do you guys think he was so successful the previous year with Dambrot but the second year he did not improve and got lost? That's a good question. I'll take a stab at it. I'd say he got lost because the team was much stronger than the first year. Lewis was a focal point in Dambrot's first year. He had the ball in his hands often. Lewis got lost in the second year with Carry handling the ball mostly, and, as stated many times here, he just didn't know how to deal with his role. Better talent around him covered up his talent a bit. He blended in more. He wasn't the man. I imagine that was hard to take for Mike. It all played on him and he just got rattled. He really wasn't playing well at all. He needed a change of scenery, a different approach. Mike is a decent player. But unfortunately, he's really just an average player. You can't win much when "your best player" is average. I feel pretty sure that Duquesne's roster is going to steadily improve and stabilize. When it does,we'll look back at the first two rosters and wonder how the Dukes even won as many games as they did. There's a long way to go yet. I believe E.Williams was on the same team when Lewis averaged 14.4. The team won 16 that year, 19 this year. I don't believe your argument holds water. Last edited by gary2 (4/12/2019 2:07 pm) Why do you guys think he was so successful the previous year with Dambrot but the second year he did not improve and got lost? Last edited by CLK (4/12/2019 2:27 pm) Why do you guys think he was so successful the previous year with Dambrot but the second year he did not improve and got lost? Ok now the Dambrot criticism threads your entitled to your opinion. Remember Robert Mitchell who stayed when Duquesne handed Ferry the bank. Never played him except the St. Louis game when the Dukes pulled upset on the road to #9 ranked team. Mitchell kicked ass that games Next week at senior night Ferry refused to start him let alone play him. Where was the outrage which is now the norm on this board. Ok now the Dambrot criticism threads your entitled to your opinion. Remember Robert Mitchell who stayed when Duquesne handed Ferry the bank. Never played him except the St. Louis game when the Dukes pulled upset on the road to #9 ranked team. Mitchell kicked ass that games Next week at senior night Ferry refused to start him let alone play him. Where was the outrage which is now the norm on this board. Robert Mitchell was Ron Everhart's first recruit. He looked like a future star, then transferred to Seton Hall, and ended up in prison. I don't know what Ferry had to do with this????????? Not sure what you are talking about, Robert Mitchell played for Everhart and never for Ferry. Mitchell never made it to his senior year at DU and transferred out early and got arrested in New York before Ferry was here. Last edited by Wildwood13 (4/12/2019 6:41 pm) Phil you had me agreeing with you and then you lost me in your last three paragraphs. I do not believe it was KD's tactic, plan or intention to move Mike Lewis out the door. Especially mid season. Per my post above: "From all accounts KD holds his player to high standards, but has their best interest at heart especially those with major talent. He wants to make them the best players they can be. Don't believe that then ask LeBron. Some kids respond to that kind of coaching and get better, while others can't." I do believe that he was trying to help Mike Lewis be a better player and Mike quit on him. Since neither you nor I were privileged to the conversations and know for sure the details of that relationship, we will just have to agree to disagree. Last edited by CLK (4/12/2019 7:19 pm) Phil you had me agreeing with you and then you lost me in your last three paragraphs. I do not believe it was KD's tactic, plan or intention to move Mike Lewis out the door. Especially mid season. Per my post above: "From all accounts KD holds his player to high standards, but has their best interest at heart especially those with major talent. He wants to make them the best players they can be. Don't believe that then ask LeBron. Some kids respond to that kind of coaching and get better, while others can't." I do believe that he was trying to help Mike Lewis be a better player and Mike quit on him. Since neither you nor I were privileged to the conversations and know for sure the details of that relationship, we will just have to agree to disagree. Agreed. Phil you had me agreeing with you and then you lost me in your last three paragraphs. I do not believe it was KD's tactic, plan or intention to move Mike Lewis out the door. Especially mid season. Per my post above: "From all accounts KD holds his player to high standards, but has their best interest at heart especially those with major talent. He wants to make them the best players they can be. Don't believe that then ask LeBron. Some kids respond to that kind of coaching and get better, while others can't." I do believe that he was trying to help Mike Lewis be a better player and Mike quit on him. Since neither you nor I were privileged to the conversations and know for sure the details of that relationship, we will just have to agree to disagree. Agreed. Amen brother. Ok now the Dambrot criticism threads your entitled to your opinion. Remember Robert Mitchell who stayed when Duquesne handed Ferry the bank. Never played him except the St. Louis game when the Dukes pulled upset on the road to #9 ranked team. Mitchell kicked ass that games Next week at senior night Ferry refused to start him let alone play him. Where was the outrage which is now the norm on this board. Robert Mitchell was Ron Everhart's first recruit. He looked like a future star, then transferred to Seton Hall, and ended up in prison. I don't know what Ferry had to do with this????????? Great discussion. My two cents. The onus was on both ML and EW to buy into coach's system. In the end, they didn't. On a completely different topic, I hope that both Sin and Mike Hughes have been given the best physical therapy regimens that this university can provide. They should be working with competent PT personnel, not just the team trainers. Our ultimate success next year will hinge on those two being healthy contributors the entire year. Keep your fingers crossed and offer a few prayers and Novenas for their successful rehabs. Ok now the Dambrot criticism threads your entitled to your opinion. Remember Robert Mitchell who stayed when Duquesne handed Ferry the bank. Never played him except the St. Louis game when the Dukes pulled upset on the road to #9 ranked team. Mitchell kicked ass that games Next week at senior night Ferry refused to start him let alone play him. Where was the outrage which is now the norm on this board. Robert Mitchell was Ron Everhart's first recruit. He looked like a future star, then transferred to Seton Hall, and ended up in prison. I don't know what Ferry had to do with this????????? This was when I first realized that Ferry was a terrible coach. Jerry Jones played a fantastic game and we upset West Virginia. A couple games later, Jerry was pulled off the starting lineup and replaced by Jeremiah, and never got a lot on minutes from then on. This was when I first realized that Ferry was a terrible coach. Jerry Jones played a fantastic game and we upset West Virginia. A couple games later, Jerry was pulled off the starting lineup and replaced by Jeremiah, and never got a lot on minutes from then on. Always thought Jones was criminally underutilized byFerry. Super athletic wing and could score on al three levels. I have never been overly thrilled with Dambrot. His first recruiting class can be forgiven to a degree because he probably was unaware of the level needed to play at the A-10 level. I can even give a pass for the second class because some came and sat. Dambrot won 16 and followed that up with 19. That is better than most seasons by most recent Dukes coaches. I have never been overly thrilled with Dambrot. His first recruiting class can be forgiven to a degree because he probably was unaware of the level needed to play at the A-10 level. I can even give a pass for the second class because some came and sat. I read with great interest these posts, but it seems when I get to the ones by rittersdiner - and I am not picking on him at all - they just seem to come out of left field. So, you're suggesting that it's possible that a coach of the caliber of Keith Dambrot "probably was unaware of the level needed to play at the A-10 level." That is one of the most LUDICROUS comments I've ever read on this board. The man won at least 20 games 12 years in a row at a Mid-American Conference school (the MAC isn't that far off the A-10, even when the A-10 is strong). During that time, Dambrot won at least 26 games in a season four times! He coached Lebron James in high school. But you're saying he's probably unaware of the level of play in the A-10. SMH. That's just wrong. You are so far off base, sir, there is no hope to even put any stock in what you say. The current coach, Keith Dambrot, is well on his way to righting this ship at Duquesne. If you can't see that, you're clearly the one who is unaware of the level of play in the A-10. Some people would never be satisfied, even if they had John Wooden as the coach. Mike Lewis II is looking to transfer to SLU, his hometown after a brief stay at Nevada. New Nevada coach, Steve Alford, may have suggested to Lewis that he find another school. Since Lewis played in three different seasons at Duquesne, I am assuming he would be like a grad transfer for SLU where he only has one season of eligibility remaining. May see Lewis in Pittsburgh one more time. I feel that the huge number of transfers each Spring is going to damage the appeal of college basketball, particularly if you are a fan of a mid-major team and lose your best players to P5 teams after 2-3 years.. According to Lewis' Twitter feed, it's official, he's going to play for the Billikens, I assume in 2020-21. I have never been overly thrilled with Dambrot. His first recruiting class can be forgiven to a degree because he probably was unaware of the level needed to play at the A-10 level. I can even give a pass for the second class because some came and sat. I read with great interest these posts, but it seems when I get to the ones by rittersdiner - and I am not picking on him at all - they just seem to come out of left field. So, you're suggesting that it's possible that a coach of the caliber of Keith Dambrot "probably was unaware of the level needed to play at the A-10 level." That is one of the most LUDICROUS comments I've ever read on this board. The man won at least 20 games 12 years in a row at a Mid-American Conference school (the MAC isn't that far off the A-10, even when the A-10 is strong). During that time, Dambrot won at least 26 games in a season four times! He coached Lebron James in high school. But you're saying he's probably unaware of the level of play in the A-10. SMH. That's just wrong. You are so far off base, sir, there is no hope to even put any stock in what you say. The current coach, Keith Dambrot, is well on his way to righting this ship at Duquesne. If you can't see that, you're clearly the one who is unaware of the level of play in the A-10. Some people would never be satisfied, even if they had John Wooden as the coach. I consider the A10 a better overall conference than the MAC. I have never been overly thrilled with Dambrot. His first recruiting class can be forgiven to a degree because he probably was unaware of the level needed to play at the A-10 level. I can even give a pass for the second class because some came and sat. I read with great interest these posts, but it seems when I get to the ones by rittersdiner - and I am not picking on him at all - they just seem to come out of left field. So, you're suggesting that it's possible that a coach of the caliber of Keith Dambrot "probably was unaware of the level needed to play at the A-10 level." That is one of the most LUDICROUS comments I've ever read on this board. The man won at least 20 games 12 years in a row at a Mid-American Conference school (the MAC isn't that far off the A-10, even when the A-10 is strong). During that time, Dambrot won at least 26 games in a season four times! He coached Lebron James in high school. But you're saying he's probably unaware of the level of play in the A-10. SMH. That's just wrong. You are so far off base, sir, there is no hope to even put any stock in what you say. The current coach, Keith Dambrot, is well on his way to righting this ship at Duquesne. If you can't see that, you're clearly the one who is unaware of the level of play in the A-10. Some people would never be satisfied, even if they had John Wooden as the coach. I consider the A10 a better overall conference than the MAC. Totally agree with this. A new coach does have to get a feel for the league. The 10 wins in league play actually show me more than the 19 total wins, because the ooc schedule has been so weak. At some point, he's going to have to upgrade the schedule, including playing a couple of hard road games, and we'll still need to get 9-10 wins ooc if he expects the team to even get a look from the NIT, let alone the NCAAs. P5 schools can afford to play garbage ooc, because the league schedule will give them the sos they need. I have no problem with the crap ooc schedules we've played the last two years, because we weren't good enough to handle anything tougher. He might be able to do a weak ooc schedule one more year, and then it will be time to do or die. If they can't handle a decent ooc schedule in the fourth year, I'll begin to have some doubts about whether we're going to get the job done. As KD has said many times, he didn't come here to be a CBI level team. I consider the A10 a better overall conference than the MAC. Totally agree with this. A new coach does have to get a feel for the league. The 10 wins in league play actually show me more than the 19 total wins, because the ooc schedule has been so weak. At some point, he's going to have to upgrade the schedule, including playing a couple of hard road games, and we'll still need to get 9-10 wins ooc if he expects the team to even get a look from the NIT, let alone the NCAAs. P5 schools can afford to play garbage ooc, because the league schedule will give them the sos they need. I have no problem with the crap ooc schedules we've played the last two years, because we weren't good enough to handle anything tougher. He might be able to do a weak ooc schedule one more year, and then it will be time to do or die. If they can't handle a decent ooc schedule in the fourth year, I'll begin to have some doubts about whether we're going to get the job done. As KD has said many times, he didn't come here to be a CBI level team. Duquesne needs better fans. Too much negativity.
CONGRATULATIONS COACH DRU JOYCE III
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Wildwood13 wrote:
Defensively, KD ramped up his defensive tactics, with more double teams, help defense, etc. To me, Mike seemed to be thinking way too much; not looking very comfortable and hesitating in his decisions. Plus he was never a very good on the ball defender. I think ultimately, the defensive issues caused KD to reduce his playing time, especially with his struggles on offense.
Again, Mike is a good player; unfortunately, it's tough when coaches change and their style doesn't fit your skill set. I hope things work out for Mike in Nevada with Steve Alford.
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Wildwood13 wrote:
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CLK wrote:gary2 wrote:levon1975 wrote:
I do remember watching the City Game (Mike Lewis played 17 minutes and took one real shot) and wondering why in hell Lewis was diminished to play Carry 30 mins 1-9 3 pts, Dunn-Martin 24 mins 1-6 7pts, Wade 10 mins 0-3 0 pts and Norman 10 mins 0-2 0 pts.
It was obvious to a blind person. That a player who scored at 14.4 ppg the year before and shot .384 .368 .826 was being phased out for a very short transfer and lightly recruited freshmen.
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Crosseye wrote:Wildwood13 wrote:
I can understand people saying Dambrot went with Lewis when that is all he had. I can understand people saying that Dambrot wanted to play a different style that Lewis didn't fit. All that is probably true. It is also true that Dambrot expressed no appreciation for the preceding year by Lewis as it was very obvious at the beginning of last season, that he was intent on phasing Lewis out in favor of his recruits.
E.Williams shots and 3 pointers also suffered with the change in emphasis. Williams decided to leave too.
Maybe all this is for the good of the team(I doubt it). I guess we will see.
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Wildwood13 wrote:
That is a good question. In my opinion it was because of the way KD likes to play. KD likes to have the ball go into his 4 and 5 and get inside scoring from those positions, he also believes that if you don't defend you don't play. In his first year KD really did not have that option. Many times he had four guards playing together. If you look at the scoring for that year Lewis, Castro, Smith and Williams provided almost all the scoring. There was not many alternatives than to play those guys a lot.. However, success is a relative term. Mike had twice as many turnovers than assists that year, and was not a very good defender.
So what happened this year? More players, more competition, better bigs, more options. Mike started every game that he played except one. It was not like Mike did not have a chance to shine. Yes there was a lot of experimentation by the coaching staff in the non conference part of the schedule. It was a time for the coaches to see what they had. But something happened to Mike,.He did not improve, and did get lost. I think he saw that his stock was dropping and made a rash decision. I do not believe he was dissed, or pushed, nudged, or even shown the door as some have suggested. Go back at the public comments from KD, which to my sounded like words of encouragement for Mike. From all accounts KD holds his player to high standards, but has their best interest at heart especially those with major talent. He wants to make them the best players they can be. Don't believe that ask LeBron. Some kids respond to that kind of coaching and get better, while others can't. I don't know if that was happening with Mike, but it was clear that he had regressed. Time to move on, Mike is gone..
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Re: Facts on our Transfers
Wildwood13 wrote:
Lack of better options around him; particularly in the post. Brown & Robinson were a step-up from the previous 5 or 6 years but they don't compare favorably with MHughes & Weathers for consistent, overall scoring punch.
In year 2 these better post players allowed the coach to more vigorously use his preferred inside out offensive model. This created less favorable options for MLII. Then his confidence was destroyed after a bad start & he doesn't bring enough defensively or as a passer to stay on the court. Mostly he was collateral damage. Somebody wasn't going to fit. I doubt the season would have gone any better if FHughes was the odd man out instead of Mike.
I have one major Complain about how this went down. So nobody feels the need to crucify me for dumping on KD, this is more a complaint about coaches in general than him specifically. As a group, their competitiveness turns most of them into hypocrites of varying degrees. Most all preach team, family atmosphere, trust, & loyalty as building blocks of greatness. In practice this is mostly a one way street & it is expected to flow in the direction of the program too frequently at the players' expense.
We heard time & time again from KD's first week straight through the interview when he discussed MLII's departure about what a talented, upright citizen, & good teammate the young man is. Mike stayed when most wouldn't, bought-in, & produced. He went from being the leading scorer & averaging 31 minutes per game to playing 17 minutes per game. That would crush almost anybody's confidence. He got about a 7 game chance to right his ship before he was being mercilessly being yanked for half-court defensive lapses & poor shot selection that didn't yield the same results for FHughes or TDM at the time or after he was gone.
I find it impossible to believe that after he didn’t rally, moving Mike on wasn't the objective of this treatment. I know many of you will disagree with this idea. I 100% believe that this was not Plan A. Ultimately though, KD is way too experienced & intelligent to not know how that was going to end.
How could that player possibly feel loyalty & trust from his coach under these circumstances? Is this how you are treated if you are a member in good standing of a University's "basketball family"? MLII was cast aside very publicly less than 10 games into the season.
In retrospect, I think that, tactically, this was the right move. I just think it was handled poorly. In my professional life I have had to dismiss 5-6 employees that were really great people with serious talent but the wrong fit for the circumstance. It always sucked no matter how much I tried to help them find a better spot or tried to give them a dignified departure. I realize that this was not an easy situation.
KD isn't evil & he isn't a lesser coach as a result. He's just forced by market conditions to be the same level of hyper-competitive hypocrite as most of his colleagues. Someone wisely posted that Mike’s reaction was a bit knee-jerk & that is also true. It just isn’t that relevant given the shabby treatment of a valued team member.
Re: Facts on our Transfers
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Ironduke81 wrote:
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•
Thread Starter
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CLK wrote:
I like this thread. Lots of diverse, reasonable perspectives have me thinking that 1 year from now we'll know if this is a huge boom or minor bust situation. (At this point only a tragedy would cause a true bust.)
Assuming this post-season's bad news is behind us, I really think DU be will coming off a deep NIT run/Cinderella NCAA apearance & be prepping a stable, talented, big, class-balanced, deep, veteran team to kick ass with their much enlarged, rabid, fan base at the soon to be feared, classy Coop. I will be so stoked & mighty impressed if getting to that point only takes 3 seasons. This can happen!
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phil95 wrote:CLK wrote:
I like this thread. Lots of diverse, reasonable perspectives have me thinking that 1 year from now we'll know if this is a huge boom or minor bust situation. (At this point only a tragedy would cause a true bust.)
Assuming this post-season's bad news is behind us, I really think DU be will coming off a deep NIT run/Cinderella NCAA apearance & be prepping a stable, talented, big, class-balanced, deep, veteran team to kick ass with their much enlarged, rabid, fan base at the soon to be feared, classy Coop. I will be so stoked & mighty impressed if getting to that point only takes 3 seasons. This can happen!
Re: Facts on our Transfers
duq81 wrote:Ironduke81 wrote:
Sorry Grand Poobaah... Brain Fart....Jerry Jones was the kid who got totally screwed because he was an Everhart guy. Mitchell Jones much confusion. Hope you get my point.
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WE ARE CREEPING UP TO THE SECOND FLOOR....
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Ironduke81 wrote:duq81 wrote:Ironduke81 wrote:
Sorry Grand Poobaah... Brain Fart....Jerry Jones was the kid who got totally screwed because he was an Everhart guy. Mitchell Jones much confusion. Hope you get my point.
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Re: Facts on our Transfers
applecorps wrote:Ironduke81 wrote:duq81 wrote:
Robert Mitchell was Ron Everhart's first recruit. He looked like a future star, then transferred to Seton Hall, and ended up in prison. I don't know what Ferry had to do with this?????????
Sorry Grand Poobaah... Brain Fart....Jerry Jones was the kid who got totally screwed because he was an Everhart guy. Mitchell Jones much confusion. Hope you get my point.
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There are no excuses now. If he can't judge the right player now, this program will struggle.
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Obviously he has no trouble bringing in players. I follow recruiting fairly closely. I was aware of who the non Akron transfers were. I had heard of Bizeau and Swingle. Can't say that I was aware of anyone else. I knew of Austin in this class. Some of the people I was unaware of have proven to be players: E.Williams, Carry, Ruthroff maybe a couple more. Having said that. Losing Williams, Wade, Bizeau and Swingle and so far only bringing in only one player of note, has to seem a negative.
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Re: Facts on our Transfers
rittersdiner wrote:
There are no excuses now. If he can't judge the right player now, this program will struggle.
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Crosseye wrote:rittersdiner wrote:
There are no excuses now. If he can't judge the right player now, this program will struggle.
What I mean by the level of play is having an intimate knowledge of each team and what it takes to beat them. You don't get that feel if Akron plays an A10 team once in a while in OOC.. Dambrot probably could tell you coaches tendencies in the MAC while at Akron but not the A10. Now, he should know.
Finally, You're stuck on the number of wins. I value quality of wins. What was our best win? Radnor? 121st. There are a lot of 20 win teams in the CBI and CIT tournaments.To go further, you need quality wins.
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Re: Facts on our Transfers
rittersdiner wrote:Crosseye wrote:rittersdiner wrote:
There are no excuses now. If he can't judge the right player now, this program will struggle.
What I mean by the level of play is having an intimate knowledge of each team and what it takes to beat them. You don't get that feel if Akron plays an A10 team once in a while in OOC.. Dambrot probably could tell you coaches tendencies in the MAC while at Akron but not the A10. Now, he should know.
Finally, You're stuck on the number of wins. I value quality of wins. What was our best win? Radnor? 121st. There are a lot of 20 win teams in the CBI and CIT tournaments.To go further, you need quality wins.
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Re: Facts on our Transfers
duq81 wrote:rittersdiner wrote:Crosseye wrote:
I read with great interest these posts, but it seems when I get to the ones by rittersdiner - and I am not picking on him at all - they just seem to come out of left field. So, you're suggesting that it's possible that a coach of the caliber of Keith Dambrot "probably was unaware of the level needed to play at the A-10 level." That is one of the most LUDICROUS comments I've ever read on this board. The man won at least 20 games 12 years in a row at a Mid-American Conference school (the MAC isn't that far off the A-10, even when the A-10 is strong). During that time, Dambrot won at least 26 games in a season four times! He coached Lebron James in high school. But you're saying he's probably unaware of the level of play in the A-10. SMH. That's just wrong. You are so far off base, sir, there is no hope to even put any stock in what you say. The current coach, Keith Dambrot, is well on his way to righting this ship at Duquesne. If you can't see that, you're clearly the one who is unaware of the level of play in the A-10. Some people would never be satisfied, even if they had John Wooden as the coach.
What I mean by the level of play is having an intimate knowledge of each team and what it takes to beat them. You don't get that feel if Akron plays an A10 team once in a while in OOC.. Dambrot probably could tell you coaches tendencies in the MAC while at Akron but not the A10. Now, he should know.
Finally, You're stuck on the number of wins. I value quality of wins. What was our best win? Radnor? 121st. There are a lot of 20 win teams in the CBI and CIT tournaments.To go further, you need quality wins.
The last 2 recruits and grad transfer big's visit do not really inspire confidence in accomplishing that
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