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5/21/2013 6:48 am  #1


While we continue to spin our wheels......

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/rmu/success-on-basketball-court-felt-all-over-robert-morris-campus-688479/


Note, that fundraising has begun for a 6,000 basketball (and probably hockey also) arena at RMU.   Don't be alarmed.   We are doing swell.  

 

5/21/2013 7:09 am  #2


Re: While we continue to spin our wheels......

Greg's going to put a fresh coat of paint on the nacho stand, and he's planning on offering napkins this year.

So please, stop yer bellyachin'.

 

5/21/2013 4:54 pm  #3


Re: While we continue to spin our wheels......

duqkurt wrote:

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/rmu/success-on-basketball-court-felt-all-over-robert-morris-campus-688479/


Note, that fundraising has begun for a 6,000 basketball (and probably hockey also) arena at RMU.   Don't be alarmed.   We are doing swell.  

What do you suppose we do? Tear down Palumbo? We can't fill what we have. Think maybe winning at a high level might help?

 

5/21/2013 5:59 pm  #4


Re: While we continue to spin our wheels......

duq81 wrote:

duqkurt wrote:

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/rmu/success-on-basketball-court-felt-all-over-robert-morris-campus-688479/


Note, that fundraising has begun for a 6,000 basketball (and probably hockey also) arena at RMU.   Don't be alarmed.   We are doing swell.  

What do you suppose we do? Tear down Palumbo? We can't fill what we have. Think maybe winning at a high level might help?

I'm just a regular schmuck.  I don't have your answer.   I do know that the people paid to have your answer don't have one either.   Their leadership is winning, growing and has positive news to read about all the time.  Our leadership is too scared to announce they have extended the contract of the AD.  

     Thread Starter
 

5/21/2013 8:17 pm  #5


Re: While we continue to spin our wheels......

duqkurt wrote:

duq81 wrote:

duqkurt wrote:

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/rmu/success-on-basketball-court-felt-all-over-robert-morris-campus-688479/


Note, that fundraising has begun for a 6,000 basketball (and probably hockey also) arena at RMU.   Don't be alarmed.   We are doing swell.  

What do you suppose we do? Tear down Palumbo? We can't fill what we have. Think maybe winning at a high level might help?

I'm just a regular schmuck.  I don't have your answer.   I do know that the people paid to have your answer don't have one either.   Their leadership is winning, growing and has positive news to read about all the time.  Our leadership is too scared to announce they have extended the contract of the AD.  

Guess what, they've been winning. When you win, it's much easier to get people to give. We haven't been good since 1972. That's longer than the Israelites wandered around the Sinai. Maybe Ferry is our Moses.

 

5/21/2013 9:08 pm  #6


Re: While we continue to spin our wheels......

You know, Moses was gone before the Israelites entered the Promised Land.

 

5/21/2013 10:19 pm  #7


Re: While we continue to spin our wheels......

You know it is bad when you have to go back to the Old Testament to find out when we last won.

The whole point of my post is they keep bringing it.  We don't.  It is up to put leadership to actually lead and give us all something to feel good about.  

Last edited by duqkurt (5/21/2013 10:21 pm)

     Thread Starter
 

5/22/2013 8:16 am  #8


Re: While we continue to spin our wheels......

Their hockey team is pretty good.  B/w them and the hoops team they sort of deserve a new place.

I dont think the AJP needs torn down, but the facelift it got a few years ago must not be complete, cause I think the place looks worse now than it did 5 years ago.  And I like the new court and the seats on the double decker side.  The end zones are pathetic.  The new seats on the side of the team benches are terrible, poor qaulity.  DU got ripped off IMO.

A fresh coat of paint would go far in that place.  Do you think they know they can paint cinder blocks?  They grey is depressing and empty.  How about a red and blue ckecker board kind of thing?

Clean that huge air/pipe system near the ceiling, the dirt and dust on top of that thing is disgusting.  Looks like something from the 50s.

They should get a new place, but 6,000 seats?  That place will be more empty than ours as soon as they lose some NEC games, or play us.

 

5/22/2013 11:02 am  #9


Re: While we continue to spin our wheels......

It's very easy to say you are going to build a 6000 seat arena, but it's an entirely different thing to actually pull it off.  There is no way in hell that Bobby Mo can build a 6000 seat arena that isn't garbage. Where are they going to get the money?  Towson just built a beautiful 5,200 seat arena and it costs them 62 million dollars.  That is far more money than RMU has in the endowment, and I don't recall there being some random rich alumni that is going to front the bill.  It would be a terrible investment.  At best, they would build a 3000 seat arena, and even that will take considerable fundraising and a lot of time, plenty of time for Toole to leave and for RMU to sputter back to the NEC.  


"You have to be realistic about these things."  - Logen Ninefingers
 

5/22/2013 11:44 am  #10


Re: While we continue to spin our wheels......

Simms wrote:

It's very easy to say you are going to build a 6000 seat arena, but it's an entirely different thing to actually pull it off.  There is no way in hell that Bobby Mo can build a 6000 seat arena that isn't garbage. Where are they going to get the money?  Towson just built a beautiful 5,200 seat arena and it costs them 62 million dollars.  That is far more money than RMU has in the endowment, and I don't recall there being some random rich alumni that is going to front the bill.  It would be a terrible investment.  At best, they would build a 3000 seat arena, and even that will take considerable fundraising and a lot of time, plenty of time for Toole to leave and for RMU to sputter back to the NEC.  

Simms, though the arena looks like a pipedream for now, it will happen someday.  RMU is in a bit of catch 22 situation. They can't upgrade there league till they upgrade their arena, but they can't really justify upgrading their arena till they upgrade their league.

I'm not sure what league the fit into. Am-East is looking to expand, but they're a pretty substantial geographic outlier for such a small confernece. Same goes for the Summit. The MAAC doesn't seem to want them having passed them over for Quinipiac and Monmoth. The Horizon would be the best fit, but they have much better options to pursue and seem very conservative in their expansion plans. Belmont, Murray St, and much of the OVC makes more sense than Robert Morris.

Facilities and league are among the many reasons why I can't put RMU ahead of us for 2nd in the city even if they've had better results over the last 3 years in men's basketball and a mediocre (and that is what they are) hockey program. If they upgrade both the league and arena though, then the pressure is on.

 

5/22/2013 11:50 am  #11


Re: While we continue to spin our wheels......

Check out the Convocation Center at Cal. U if you want to see what a basketball arena should look like.  All built with smoke, mirrors and vapor...I'll take the 'bo.  Keep my ticket prices low.

 

5/22/2013 12:40 pm  #12


Re: While we continue to spin our wheels......

It depends on how you build it.  Will they put all the stupid glitter and gloss into it, or will it be 6000 seats/bleachers?  Will it have a huge unneeded jumbotron scoreboard?  Will it also house conference rooms, locker rooms with tvs and swimming pools?  Will it have a weight room, track, and a bunch of other empty space?

RMU could be open to naming rights from one of the car dealers out there, or UPMC, PNC or Dicks.  Who knows.

If you think it wont happen, probably like our AD does, then you get left behind, like our AD does.

Frankly, RMU is #2 in Pittsburgh today.  If you dont think that, you got left behind also.

 

 

5/22/2013 12:50 pm  #13


Re: While we continue to spin our wheels......

Listen, good for Bobby Mo if they can do it. They are the #2 NCAA program in the city of Pittsburgh and they deserve nice digs. They certainly have some alumni now with the cash to put behind it, too. We certainly should not look down (up?) our noses at them or anyone.

If we want to talk, let's beat them and Pitt on the court, no matter where the court is or how many seats it holds. That should be our one and only concern - that, and finishing near the top of the A-10. Aside from that, there are no bragging points.

Win, and get to the NCAA Tournament, and represent well.

The rest means nothing.

 

5/23/2013 10:27 am  #14


Re: While we continue to spin our wheels......

The RED and BLUE elephant in the room is that RMU students actually attend their games. Our stands are mainly filled with aging alumni and their grandkids these days. It's sad, but I don't think there would be any student protest or uprising if Duquesne completely eliminated the basketball program altogether. Only the hope of getting their faces on TV during the annual City Game seems to bring out these student "fans".

 

5/23/2013 11:36 am  #15


Re: While we continue to spin our wheels......

LaurenB wrote:

The RED and BLUE elephant in the room is that RMU students actually attend their games. Our stands are mainly filled with aging alumni and their grandkids these days. It's sad, but I don't think there would be any student protest or uprising if Duquesne completely eliminated the basketball program altogether. Only the hope of getting their faces on TV during the annual City Game seems to bring out these student "fans".

RMU wins. Certain people on this board seem to sneer at the idea that winning will bring the fans out, but I disagree. Winning, and I don't mean at a CBI level, is what it will take to get the students interested.

 

5/23/2013 11:56 am  #16


Re: While we continue to spin our wheels......

ElDuque wrote:

Listen, good for Bobby Mo if they can do it. They are the #2 NCAA program in the city of Pittsburgh and they deserve nice digs. They certainly have some alumni now with the cash to put behind it, too. We certainly should not look down (up?) our noses at them or anyone.

If we want to talk, let's beat them and Pitt on the court, no matter where the court is or how many seats it holds. That should be our one and only concern - that, and finishing near the top of the A-10. Aside from that, there are no bragging points.

Win, and get to the NCAA Tournament, and represent well.

The rest means nothing.

 
Agree with you 100%. Our talking needs to be done on the court. I don't care who someone thinks is #1, 2, or 3 right now. Good on court results are what counts and I believe will ultimately lead to more fans, maybe even students, showing up to the games.

 

5/23/2013 2:10 pm  #17


Re: While we continue to spin our wheels......

As a life long Dukes fan I could never understand why Dukes fans always sneered at Robert Morris. They were a national community college power putting guys in NBA and when Jarret the Jewel coached they went to NCAA's, and thrived under Mike Rice Jr and now Poole.

I went to games out there and saw a few loses at AJP, one in particular when Ricky Cannon out played Kevin Price and had 20 and a ton of rebounds. True Price was playing with a bad back but the Dukes lost.

now I agree Dukes need to TCB. And start wining these games, maybe larger, quicker and better players we recruited this year will do the trick.
 


A diehard fan since 1961
 

5/23/2013 3:07 pm  #18


Re: While we continue to spin our wheels......

president wrote:

ElDuque wrote:

Listen, good for Bobby Mo if they can do it. They are the #2 NCAA program in the city of Pittsburgh and they deserve nice digs. They certainly have some alumni now with the cash to put behind it, too. We certainly should not look down (up?) our noses at them or anyone.

If we want to talk, let's beat them and Pitt on the court, no matter where the court is or how many seats it holds. That should be our one and only concern - that, and finishing near the top of the A-10. Aside from that, there are no bragging points.

Win, and get to the NCAA Tournament, and represent well.

The rest means nothing.

 
Agree with you 100%. Our talking needs to be done on the court. I don't care who someone thinks is #1, 2, or 3 right now. Good on court results are what counts and I believe will ultimately lead to more fans, maybe even students, showing up to the games.

It's not who I think is 1, 2 or 3, it's a fact.

We're #3 in the City of Pittsburgh and #16 in the A-10.


Period. End of story. We can talk again in the fall when games are played and we can do something to change this.


 

 

5/23/2013 5:34 pm  #19


Re: While we continue to spin our wheels......

ElDuque wrote:

president wrote:

ElDuque wrote:

Listen, good for Bobby Mo if they can do it. They are the #2 NCAA program in the city of Pittsburgh and they deserve nice digs. They certainly have some alumni now with the cash to put behind it, too. We certainly should not look down (up?) our noses at them or anyone.

If we want to talk, let's beat them and Pitt on the court, no matter where the court is or how many seats it holds. That should be our one and only concern - that, and finishing near the top of the A-10. Aside from that, there are no bragging points.

Win, and get to the NCAA Tournament, and represent well.

The rest means nothing.

 
Agree with you 100%. Our talking needs to be done on the court. I don't care who someone thinks is #1, 2, or 3 right now. Good on court results are what counts and I believe will ultimately lead to more fans, maybe even students, showing up to the games.

It's not who I think is 1, 2 or 3, it's a fact.

We're #3 in the City of Pittsburgh and #16 in the A-10.


Period. End of story. We can talk again in the fall when games are played and we can do something to change this.


 

It's absolutely not a fact. Just because you say it is or think it doesn't make it so.

 

5/23/2013 8:21 pm  #20


Re: While we continue to spin our wheels......

Steve, RMU has been a better program for years and is preceived as the #2 team in the City by many fans and most in the media.  This was evidenced by the many tweets like the one below after RMU beat Kentucky. As El Duque has said until we can consistently beat them again this will continue to be the case.  Your denial does nothing to change this.

Michael DeCourcy‏@tsnmike9h“@keithRmcbride: @aprince27 RMU has beaten Duquesne in last 3 meetings…” They've been better for years. Wasn't the question
 

 

5/23/2013 9:11 pm  #21


Re: While we continue to spin our wheels......

steve19981 wrote:

ElDuque wrote:

president wrote:


 
Agree with you 100%. Our talking needs to be done on the court. I don't care who someone thinks is #1, 2, or 3 right now. Good on court results are what counts and I believe will ultimately lead to more fans, maybe even students, showing up to the games.

It's not who I think is 1, 2 or 3, it's a fact.

We're #3 in the City of Pittsburgh and #16 in the A-10.


Period. End of story. We can talk again in the fall when games are played and we can do something to change this.


 

It's absolutely not a fact. Just because you say it is or think it doesn't make it so.

It's a fact because we were 0-2 in Pittsburgh and 1-15 in the A-10.

It's a fact because Bobby Mo knocked off Kentucky in the NIT and got all kinds of national love. And Bobby Mo has been to the NCAA Tournament several times since the last time we were there.

It's a fact because Bobby Mo fans have been talking trash, and our response is to walk around with our tail between our legs.

So now that I've presented my case, I'm open to hearing yours.

 

5/23/2013 9:45 pm  #22


Re: While we continue to spin our wheels......

ElDuque wrote:

It's a fact because Bobby Mo fans have been talking trash, and our response is to walk around with our tail between our legs.

So now that I've presented my case, I'm open to hearing yours.

What fans? I can't find them and this article about them got more response on a Duquesne message board than EVERY topic combined at their message board on rivals. I absoulutely don't walk around with my tail between my legs. I'll gladly puff my chest up and defend my school and program until I can't any longer.

We might be arguing symantics here. If your point is that they are the better "team" I won't argue with you. I get that we haven't won against them in three years and that proves that they are a better team. right now. I would not agree that they are the better "men's basketball program" or "athletic program" and I've articulated myself a number of times why. You don't overcome the difference between the A-10 and NEC by winning three games in a row or based on what Dejan thinks. We still are in the power position when it comes to recruiting, coaching hires, current spending, the capacity to invest more, facilities, arena, conference, head to head olympic sports performance, strength of schedule, overall fan support and interest, and outcome of the series beyond the last 3 years. We are their biggest home game every other year in most circumstances, they're maybe our 7th or 8th.

They could win 10 games in a row against us and it wouldn't matter. They'e behind us for reasons that are simply beyond their control right now and that they don't have a plan to overcome. Don't believe me. We've won, what, 6 women's city games in a row? Who proved to be the better program in April in the eyes of SMS?

Last edited by steve19981 (5/24/2013 12:00 am)

 

5/24/2013 8:18 am  #23


Re: While we continue to spin our wheels......

Whoa!  Good points by both - maybe I need to moderate this...
SMS left because Pitt has more money to operate a higher level program, more money for her and her staff, Pitt won a few years ago and she has a commit for the program, and at Pitt she has more earning potential.
It is what it is - 

Robert Morris University as a whole isn't on the same academic level as DU related to worldwide programming and PR, high level programs (which doesn't mean that many aren't excellent), and research abilities and history.  They made the RIGHT BASKETBALL MOVES OVER THE LAST 8 years.  Their men's basketball program has been going up - ours went up with RE and theirs was already on a steady rise and continued when they beat us with current and former coach.  We have been down.  They are a better team than us and has been for at least 4 years in my opinion, but overall their league has not been at the same level of the A-10.  I have seen more fan support for their men's basketball at games than at our games - get the numbers - .  
Some of these ideas  are philosophical as it is hard at times to look at programs vs. leagues vs. schools.  A lot of this is philosophy or opinion and I enjoy both of your viewpoints on this one.

Last edited by FAM (5/24/2013 8:20 am)

 

5/24/2013 1:11 pm  #24


Re: While we continue to spin our wheels......

FAM wrote:

Whoa!  Good points by both - maybe I need to moderate this...
SMS left because Pitt has more money to operate a higher level program, more money for her and her staff, Pitt won a few years ago and she has a commit for the program, and at Pitt she has more earning potential.
It is what it is - 

Robert Morris University as a whole isn't on the same academic level as DU related to worldwide programming and PR, high level programs (which doesn't mean that many aren't excellent), and research abilities and history.  They made the RIGHT BASKETBALL MOVES OVER THE LAST 8 years.  Their men's basketball program has been going up - ours went up with RE and theirs was already on a steady rise and continued when they beat us with current and former coach.  We have been down.  They are a better team than us and has been for at least 4 years in my opinion, but overall their league has not been at the same level of the A-10.  I have seen more fan support for their men's basketball at games than at our games - get the numbers - .  
Some of these ideas  are philosophical as it is hard at times to look at programs vs. leagues vs. schools.  A lot of this is philosophy or opinion and I enjoy both of your viewpoints on this one.

I think you replace SMS with Andy Toole, she with he and Pitt with Duquesne in your first statement and I think you would still have a true statement. There is certainly a wider gap between Pitt and Duquesne in a lot of ways, but there is a substantial institutional gap between the Duquesne and Robert Morris right now. For me, the program, the league and the school are all parts of the bigger picture and are relevant when evaluating a program. I don't think you can separate them.

As far as fan interest goes, I'm basing it on what's quanitfiable. We drew 3400 to their 1200 paid this year. You can debate how many people were actually there (I know I paid for an couldn't make 3 games last year) but it still would have averaged out to quite a bit higher than 1200 based on the eyeball test. I would also assume that the Colonials attedance numbers are somewhat inflated. If we're talking about enthusiasm, that certainly is subjective. However, it's worth looking at the activity on their rivals message board (1st and really only result on google)  to help gauge this. You have to go back to May 2 to have as many reply on that entire forum as we've had in this thread. Yuku is quiet right now, but we've probably had 2-3 times as many posts in that same period. Sure, this is only one measure, but it the only measure I have access to. Subjectively, their student support seems better. I'll give them credit there. However, I'll take the overall atmophere and game production at the AJP.

I wouldn't say they've had the better team for four years either. This past year was their first convincing win since 2004. I thought we had the more talented team in 2010, but we were out hustled, and out toughed in the second half.

 

5/24/2013 2:45 pm  #25


Re: While we continue to spin our wheels......

I'm with Steve on this.  RMU, despite recent success, is still well behind Duquesne as far as the pecking order for men's basketball in Pittsburgh.

 

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