Wildwood13 wrote:

i don’t know about anyone else, but I am getting pretty disgusted with all the early NBA entrants and college transfers in college basketball. I am an avid college fan, but if this process continues, I could see me losing interest rapidly. What are others opinions on these subjects.

Since you asked, it is a downer to me. One-and-done's, starters who transfer to P5 schools, starters who grad transfer, even players whose coach leaves--they couldn't have come for the school. Well, the school is why most of us are still interested.

Some old-timer (now I'm one) told me DU had those powerhouse football teams in the 1930's because some players were paid non-students. They called them "ringers." They put on a Duquesne uniform but to them it was just to make money. No idealism, no cause, no fantasy--just a paycheck. I guess things haven't changed that much.

To keep my interest--and to keep reading this board--I just tune out most of this stuff so I'm not robbed of my adult fun. Furthermore, I'll give any player all the credit in the world for using all of his athletic eligibility at dear old Duquesne.
 

The Dome wrote:

81 here’s my problem with taking the money or thinking you can take the money. The NBA created the problem in the first place with the ridiculous one and done rule. If they were truly looking out for the best interest of the players why not expand or fortify the D League. Just as with the transfers so also the guys declaring for the for NBA are getting extremely bad advice. There just aren’t enough positions and besides the NBA has training camps in Europe, Africa and China. The odds of making it grow longer every year. As to the transfers, if passed the new grade transfer rule requiring the transferee to finish their studies at the new school within a year or lose a scholarship will make a huge difference. In general less than 15% of the total transfer list will wind up in a “better program.”

The NBA, and NFL love the current system because it costs them nothing, plus the best of the players coming out of college are now famous, and as such, easier to promote. Compare that to baseball, where Mike Trout was a nobody until he started tearing it up in the big leagues. That said, I don't feel players should be forced to go to college if that's not what they want. Nobody around here complained when Mario, Sid, Jagr, and Malkin came to the Pens straight out of high school. Why shouldn't a Lebron, or Kobe have the same opportunity? If it turns out to be a bad choice, so what. Young people make worse choices everyday. If they end up needing to go back to school, it's no tragedy, they can do the grants/loans thing just like any regular student has to do.

Wildwood13 wrote:

I have no problem if a player leaves early for the pros, after all we go to school to get a well paying job. But right now there are too many leaving with no chance of making the NBA. I feel the best way to rectify this, would be if a player chooses to leave early, he must pay the school the cost of tuition and room and board for the remaining years he does not fulfill his scholarship years. Therefore, if a player makes the NBA, this cost will not matter much to him. But the marginal and players that have no chance of making a living through basketball will think twice about leaving school early. Now we have to work on the transfer problem.

A scholarship is for one year. What you propose would never stand up in court. Players leaving early doesn't affect schools like Duquesne, so I really don't care much.
 

As we get better and recruit better players, the power 5 schools will come after our better players to replace their one and done players to fill their voids. As far as the over seas players, then they would have the money to pay back the universities, wouldn't they ? But those overseas players are not as abundant as you think, usually just two players per team. As far as the scholarship being a one year scholarship, maybe they should make them four year. This will protect the player as well as the school and coach. Now coaches will have to be sure of their recruits, that they really think they can play D one, they fit your system and are going to crack it academically as well as socially.

Dsnyder15 wrote:

Wildwood13 wrote:

I have no problem if a player leaves early for the pros, after all we go to school to get a well paying job. But right now there are too many leaving with no chance of making the NBA. I feel the best way to rectify this, would be if a player chooses to leave early, he must pay the school the cost of tuition and room and board for the remaining years he does not fulfill his scholarship years. Therefore, if a player makes the NBA, this cost will not matter much to him. But the marginal and players that have no chance of making a living through basketball will think twice about leaving school early. Now we have to work on the transfer problem.

I know you are joking....or I would consider this the most idiotic comment of the year.  Discussion starter for sure.

Kids should have more freedom.  Tying them to one school only makes them a slave for our entertainment purposes.  The one-and-done will soon go away with the changes in the NBA.  The NCAA can make a few changes to ensure that rules are not abused but kids need to have the freedom to change their minds and pursue their dreams without some alumni getting so pissed that their entertainment is diminished that they levy a 100K fine on that 18 year old.  LOL  No way you were serious.

Right now I have to check daily to see who is on our roster. So tell us what kind of freedom college athletes should have that they do not now have?
 

Dsnyder15 wrote:

scduke wrote:

Dsnyder15 wrote:

I know you are joking....or I would consider this the most idiotic comment of the year.  Discussion starter for sure.

Kids should have more freedom.  Tying them to one school only makes them a slave for our entertainment purposes.  The one-and-done will soon go away with the changes in the NBA.  The NCAA can make a few changes to ensure that rules are not abused but kids need to have the freedom to change their minds and pursue their dreams without some alumni getting so pissed that their entertainment is diminished that they levy a 100K fine on that 18 year old.  LOL  No way you were serious.

Right now I have to check daily to see who is on our roster. So tell us what kind of freedom college athletes should have that they do not now have?
 

 
I am not suggesting more freedom....but charging them +- 100,000 for not completing there scholarship is pure folly.

I like the current rule. You transfer, you sit a year. The one exception I'd make is for coaching changes, especially when the coach is fired. Let those players transfer with no penalty.

Players can declare for the draft and explore where they may land without giving up their eligibility. Obi Toppin is doing this. Underclassmen can do this with the NFL draft as well. You can explore, get an assessment, not hire an agent, and if you aren't thrilled with the results - then you come back to school, play, get better, and try again. Does this damper planning in recruiting/off-season planning? Probably - but I doubt it is that big of an impact/surprise.

I don't understand how one could be "disgusted" with someone exploring an opportunity to make a lot of good money. Were you disgusted by Mark Zuckerburg for leaving school early to pursue a lucrative opportunity? Bill Gates? Steve Jobs? It's the same idea. 

The transfers are a bit of an issue - but again, there is a mechanism in place to curtail that - the 1 year sitting out disincentive. Also, something like 45% of undergrad transfers go down a level, very few transfer up. 

If Eric Williams didn't transfer, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Let's reframe it. Dambrot has an ability to find overlooked talent and develop them to a point where they can join a talented P5 team - and play meaningful minutes. Extrapolate that a few years and the players like Williams are staying because of the culture and winning ways of the program. 

Icky 07 I am not disgusted at the players that have a legitimate shot at the NBA, I am disgusted at the amount of underclass that declared and have no chance of making the NBA or playing overseas. Yes it s their right, but they are getting terrible information to leave early. I do not get some of you guys, do you just read certain sentences and skip over others. I have stated that we go to school to get a job, and if you get a well paying job before you get the degree, great for that person. The NBA pays very well.

As for your grad transfers, two starters made an impact on Texas Tech reaching the final game of the NCAA tournament. One from way lesser school and one from an equal.

As far as Williams is concerned I don’t think coach wanted him to stay any ways. But for argument sake let’s say coach really wanted him to stay as some of these coaches want the uncovered gems they find to stay. Stay with me on this and read the entire text. Yes it is the players right to transfer to any school, but what a way to pay a guy back when he gives you a scholarship and no one else was willing to stick out their neck. After all if you are good enough the NBA will find you no matter where you play, they have been plucking players from obscure places for years. A coach and his staff look at these players for years before offering a scholarship. They invest time and money, so we’re is the loyalty and thanks the player gives to the only coach willing to give the players a chance?

As scduke said, we will truly become farm systems for the power 5 schools.

Skeptic Al, I totally agree with your first paragraph. I never said how and what the solution is to the transfer problem. But as far as buy outs for coaches, Dixon and Barmes both wanted to take the UCLA job, but could not because no one was willing to pay the buy out. Therefore it stopped them from moving on. The coaches that do move on, at least their old school is compensated for losing that coach when they have a buy out clause in effect.

Wildwood -  WAS aware of the Dixon/Barnes situations -  (might be REALLY interesting to be in the meetings with the coaches/AD'S in THOSE programs - where Coach is "essentially saying"  "I'd rather be THERE than HERE")  -   Athletic Scholarships are for ONE year -  Coaches sign four/five/seven year deals -  Leave ANY time they wish -   One point I was trying to make is "Why are the 19-20 year olds supposed to be making better decisions and more accountable than the much older coaches?  If coaches are "let go for "sub standard performance"  as opposed to being "fired for cause" in the second year of a five year deal - they get the $$$$$$ -  what happens if "School X" - decides NOT to renew player Y's scholarship for "sub-standard performance" - although they probably would NOT call it that - I'm sure they would come up with Something to call it.  Player is in the lurch - 

A while back DU reportedly got some kind of commitment from a "biggie" from Louisiana -  there were some exchanges on this board (similar to what happened with Swingale) i.e. His coach was posting how much he was looking forward to it - talking about his progress etc.  Dude NEVER showed up on campus - Does anyone remember HIS name and  where HE wound up?   Just Curious - (thought of that situation when there was the mention of how/where the players Ferry had signed wound up?

THANKS!!  

SkepticAl wrote:

Wildwood -  WAS aware of the Dixon/Barnes situations -  (might be REALLY interesting to be in the meetings with the coaches/AD'S in THOSE programs - where Coach is "essentially saying"  "I'd rather be THERE than HERE")  -   Athletic Scholarships are for ONE year -  Coaches sign four/five/seven year deals -  Leave ANY time they wish -   One point I was trying to make is "Why are the 19-20 year olds supposed to be making better decisions and more accountable than the much older coaches?  If coaches are "let go for "sub standard performance"  as opposed to being "fired for cause" in the second year of a five year deal - they get the $$$$$$ -  what happens if "School X" - decides NOT to renew player Y's scholarship for "sub-standard performance" - although they probably would NOT call it that - I'm sure they would come up with Something to call it.  Player is in the lurch - 

A while back DU reportedly got some kind of commitment from a "biggie" from Louisiana -  there were some exchanges on this board (similar to what happened with Swingale) i.e. His coach was posting how much he was looking forward to it - talking about his progress etc.  Dude NEVER showed up on campus - Does anyone remember HIS name and  where HE wound up?   Just Curious - (thought of that situation when there was the mention of how/where the players Ferry had signed wound up?

THANKS!!  

Matt Moss was the player. This was part of the 2011 class that Everhart signed that was a near total washout. The loss of this class is why the cupboard was bare after the 2012 season, and a big reason why Mr. Quinnipiac was able to get away with firing Ron. 6-7 Shakore Grant, 6-8 power forward A.J. West, and 6-10 Chiehk Fall were the other recruits that never played for the Dukes. This was an absolute disaster for Ron, and killed the momentum he had built up to that point. The 2012 team would have been much better, and as a result, TJ may not have felt he had to leave.

Westender wrote:

Wasn't there a reported saviour big that was supposedly recruited by Danny Nee that never got here? Something to do with confusion about eligibility? Maybe I'm mistaken.

That was Hernol Hall. He didn't come because Nee got fired. He ended up at Cincy, but was then found to be ineligible and never played.