When the transfer happened I pretty much was hoping he'd fall flat on his face at Arizona. I've since got over it and actually wouldn't mind seeing him succeed to shut up some of the Pitt fans who still don't think he could play there.

I still hope he falls flat on his face.  Along with his aunt.

I've been touting the joy of rivalries for years, even though it's gone over some (not all) heads here.

Best case scenario: He's an all-American, we're the Cinderella team of 2014, and in the NCAA tournament, Micah Mason intercepts an errant pass from him and hits a three to win the game. And of course, I'd like to see the women finally make the tournament under Dan Burt, including a huge blowout win over Pitt.

I don't wish TJ or Susie any ill will. I appreciate what they did here. But now that they wear other colors, I want to beat them. 


 

LaurenB wrote:

duqkurt wrote:

I still hope he falls flat on his face. Along with his aunt.

 
You got your wish. TJ played 34 minutes in Arizona's 73-62 victory over Cal Poly last night, scored a whopping 5 points and went 0-3 from the free throw line. He did have 2 steals though.

 
I checked the box score too and noted what you posted. You did not mention that he had 6 assists and 2 turnovers. It's the playmaking and steals that Miller and the Arizona people are touting about him, so I have to assume, much to my disgust, that they aren't too unhappy with his stats.

Westender wrote:

duq81 wrote:

I have less ill will for Suzie. She fixed the program, and left it in very good shape. As for TJ, he got his coach fired, and left the program in worse shape than when he got here. Fortunately, I think we got lucky with Ferry. After hiring 7 coaches in a row who eventually failed, we're due to get it right a couple of times in a row.

81, I think it's a little unfair to say RE was a failure. He might not have been a roaring success, but to say he failed is a bit too strong. I will always maintain that he was let go when he was because of personal differences with Amodio - not that he wouldn't been fired anyway in a year or two. I think he did enough here to be given more respect as well as a chance to save his job.
 

RE isn't one of the 7 failures. Those were Cinicola, Rice, Satalin, Carroll, Edgar, Porter, and Nee. I count RE as a modest success. Perhaps if he had stayed, and it fell apart on his watch I might have considered him a failure, but since that didn't happen, he was a success in my book. I'm hoping Ferry is success number 2.

ElDuque wrote:

duq81, you're a pretty tough critic if you consider Mike Rice a failure. He won 56% of his games, went to 2 NITs, and recruited an all-time player (Bruce Atkins) to the Bluff.

John Cinicola 52-56 (.481)
Mike Rice 62-49 (.559)
Jim Satalin 85-120 (.415)
John Carroll 73-98 (.427)
Scott Edgar 29-55 (.345)
Darelle Porter 23-64 (.264)
Danny Nee 42-102 (.292)
Ron Everhart 99-89 (.527)

Have to put it in the context of the time. Rice took over a program where the expectations were ranked teams, and NCAA trips. His last year we set a school record for losses, so yes, I consider him overall to be a failure. He left the program worse than he found it. Also, his 1980 team was loaded, and should have won far more than 17 games. As for him landing Atkins, Danny Nee brought in Aaron Jackson, and no one would consider him to be anything but a disaster. The biggest mistake Red Manning made was hiring Rice instead of Al Bailey. In fact, Bailey really should have been hired when Manning stepped down, but Cinicola had paid his dues, and it would have been tough to bypass him.

Last edited by duq81 (11/09/2013 9:09 pm)

ElDuque wrote:

The '80 team was hurt by the loss of John Moore. Although Fred Moon filled in admirably, John Moore added toughness and leadership that were never replaced. Rice also recruited Arnold and Tunstall and was brought here as an assistant under Cinicola to get BB Flenory here. Rice also recruited Daryl Shepherd. Hard to compare one gem for Nee, who really didn't have a desire to coach any more, to Rice.

Rice recruited well in the frontcourt, but horribly at guard. I remember well the game that began the collapse that cost him his job. With the team 2 games above .500, and looking to end the season on a roll, the Dukes were thrashing Penn State at the Arena. Down double digits in the second half, the nits began to press full court. Despite the fact that the forgettable Mike Edleman was their only decent guard, the Dukes sorry backcourt (Sissini, Marcus Long, and Tom Cvitkovic) couldn't get the ball across halfcourt. After an avalanche of turnovers, the Dukes lost the game. Every team pressed us after that, and we finished with 17 losses, most in school history to that point. To put salt in the wound, a year later I watched Bobby Mo go up to Penn State, with two local kids that Rice let get away (one of whom, Chipper Harris, came out of Valley, the school where Rice coached BB), and the Bobby Mo backcourt absolutely destroyed the guards for Penn State. Rice couldn't coach a lick. I knew most of the guys on the team, and they had a low opinion of his coaching ability, derisively referring to him as "The Mastermind".

LaurenB wrote:

How can anyone fault TJ for heading west to have the opportunity to play with a legitimate contender for a Final Four berth the next two years? He played his heart out for Duquesne when he was here, so let's all just wish him the best.
He seems to be adjusting well and has matured quite a bit since he left as evidenced by this video. I guess he thinks he has a future in broadcasting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2BxQdsNu0w

Screw him!

duq81 wrote:

Westender wrote:

duq81 wrote:

I have less ill will for Suzie. She fixed the program, and left it in very good shape. As for TJ, he got his coach fired, and left the program in worse shape than when he got here. Fortunately, I think we got lucky with Ferry. After hiring 7 coaches in a row who eventually failed, we're due to get it right a couple of times in a row.

81, I think it's a little unfair to say RE was a failure. He might not have been a roaring success, but to say he failed is a bit too strong. I will always maintain that he was let go when he was because of personal differences with Amodio - not that he wouldn't been fired anyway in a year or two. I think he did enough here to be given more respect as well as a chance to save his job.
 

RE isn't one of the 7 failures. Those were Cinicola, Rice, Satalin, Carroll, Edgar, Porter, and Nee. I count RE as a modest success. Perhaps if he had stayed, and it fell apart on his watch I might have considered him a failure, but since that didn't happen, he was a success in my book. I'm hoping Ferry is success number 2.

Thanks for the clarification '81 - couldn't tell where your list of 7 coaches began and ended,

ElDuque wrote:

Don't feed the troll.

I also knew guys on that team. Two passed a class (with an A) because it was all team projects with papers. The hippie girl in our class also got an A because she was on our team (you could have made a sitcom with that group). The dislike of Rice, to be fair, was not unanimous. He had his faults, but he also had guys who didn't think they had to go to class. But rather than bashing anyone, I think we can agree that we disagree on Rice.

You mentioned Al Bailey before ... he was an assistant under Red and left for either the ABA or NBA, didn't he? I think Cinicola got the job because he was the loyal assistant. If I remember right, Bailey passed away right after Rice got the job.

Red had a brilliant basketball mind, if you ever had the chance to talk to him. He had really poor (IMO) people skills, and was a "my way or the highway" guy. I think we have some guys who remember Red as a coach who can speak further to this.

Cinicola was a good assistant who struggled as a head coach. Very nice guy though.

Bailey died about 10 years after that, around 1987 or so. He was about 57.
Cinicola was Red's top assistant. Bailey probably knew that Cinicola was first in line. That's how things were done back then.

Westender wrote:

duq81 wrote:

I have less ill will for Suzie. She fixed the program, and left it in very good shape. As for TJ, he got his coach fired, and left the program in worse shape than when he got here. Fortunately, I think we got lucky with Ferry. After hiring 7 coaches in a row who eventually failed, we're due to get it right a couple of times in a row.

81, I think it's a little unfair to say RE was a failure. He might not have been a roaring success, but to say he failed is a bit too strong. I will always maintain that he was let go when he was because of personal differences with Amodio - not that he wouldn't been fired anyway in a year or two. I think he did enough here to be given more respect as well as a chance to save his job.
 

 
Agree. Everhart did a more than credible job here, far better than anyone else in the last 30 years. If he is a failure, then there are many more failures out there than I ever could have imagined! We really don't know how things are going to go under JF and Co. just yet. While it looks good, things looked hopeful under RE as well until the roof fell in and I certainly do not blame RE for all of that.

LaurenB wrote:

Westender wrote:

duq81 wrote:

Screw him!

I second your opinion '81. TJ, with a push by his father and the tampering of Sean Miller, turned his back on the guy who gave him the opportunity to play higher level D1 BB when few others believed he could do it. Just another example of McConnell egotistical arrogance.

TJ committed to Duquesne when he was a sophomore in HIGH SCHOOL! By the time he was a senior, he could have went to just about any Div 1. team. So let us not engage in revisionist history here. But he and his father did the honorable thing and stood by their commitment and gave the Dukes two great years. It was only then that he wanted to play for a higher level D1 program at Arizona. His "egotistical arrogant attitude" might just land him in the NBA now, whereas he would have languished in relative obscurity had he remained a Duke.


 

 I'm in favor of banning the troll.