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12/14/2022 3:17 pm  #1


Building a program

Vukovcan has a nice article on PSN about the transfer portal (mainly focusing on football). Scholarships are one year commitments. In basketball, I think 6-7 new players each year is the expected norm. Some will transfer out as their decision and some will be pushed out the door. Only 2-3 HS kids will come in, and those that do will not likely stay long. The old concept of building a program with HS recruits and developing them over four years with some supplementation from transfers has to be revisited. The new norm is how well can one recruit numerous transfers and integrate them into a team concept each year. The bottom line is still wins, but how that is achieved will be done differently from the past. 

 

12/14/2022 3:35 pm  #2


Re: Building a program

Yeah. Frankly it’s killed college sports for me, right or wrong. There’s no element of the experience at a given school most of these kids share with any fellow students or alums.

 

12/15/2022 5:46 pm  #3


Re: Building a program

Think about this.  The Dukes have one of the strongest freshman classes in their history. Dixon and Barre inside at 4 and 5 and Hronsky at the swing forward stretch 3.  Rozier at the point and Carney redshirted,  a dead eye shooter at the 2 guard.  .  Pretty strong five, huh?  What's the chances all of them are here three years from now? The thread started here brings home the dilemma the Dukes coaches face unless they super glue these guys to the campus. 

 

12/16/2022 9:23 am  #4


Re: Building a program

grammudder wrote:

Think about this.  The Dukes have one of the strongest freshman classes in their history. Dixon and Barre inside at 4 and 5 and Hronsky at the swing forward stretch 3.  Rozier at the point and Carney redshirted,  a dead eye shooter at the 2 guard.  .  Pretty strong five, huh?  What's the chances all of them are here three years from now? The thread started here brings home the dilemma the Dukes coaches face unless they super glue these guys to the campus. 

The best chance to keep most of these players with eligibility beyond this year is to win! If the recruits play on a quality team and KD can sell them on the idea that a run in the NCAAT is a strong possibility down the line there is a much better chance to keep players than if things go south and the team has a losing season IMO. Success breeds success. Or am I wearing my rose colored glasses again?

 

12/16/2022 1:00 pm  #5


Re: Building a program

El Presidente wrote:

grammudder wrote:

Think about this.  The Dukes have one of the strongest freshman classes in their history. Dixon and Barre inside at 4 and 5 and Hronsky at the swing forward stretch 3.  Rozier at the point and Carney redshirted,  a dead eye shooter at the 2 guard.  .  Pretty strong five, huh?  What's the chances all of them are here three years from now? The thread started here brings home the dilemma the Dukes coaches face unless they super glue these guys to the campus. 

The best chance to keep most of these players with eligibility beyond this year is to win! If the recruits play on a quality team and KD can sell them on the idea that a run in the NCAAT is a strong possibility down the line there is a much better chance to keep players than if things go south and the team has a losing season IMO. Success breeds success. Or am I wearing my rose colored glasses again?

"Best chance"--perhaps. But how much of a chance? I follow closely about a dozen different college football and basketball programs--sort of a hobby. I see starters in programs on the rise without coaching changes entering the transfer portal. It is the Wild West and it leaves fans puzzled.

 

12/16/2022 1:37 pm  #6


Re: Building a program

scduke wrote:

El Presidente wrote:

grammudder wrote:

Think about this.  The Dukes have one of the strongest freshman classes in their history. Dixon and Barre inside at 4 and 5 and Hronsky at the swing forward stretch 3.  Rozier at the point and Carney redshirted,  a dead eye shooter at the 2 guard.  .  Pretty strong five, huh?  What's the chances all of them are here three years from now? The thread started here brings home the dilemma the Dukes coaches face unless they super glue these guys to the campus. 

The best chance to keep most of these players with eligibility beyond this year is to win! If the recruits play on a quality team and KD can sell them on the idea that a run in the NCAAT is a strong possibility down the line there is a much better chance to keep players than if things go south and the team has a losing season IMO. Success breeds success. Or am I wearing my rose colored glasses again?

"Best chance"--perhaps. But how much of a chance? I follow closely about a dozen different college football and basketball programs--sort of a hobby. I see starters in programs on the rise without coaching changes entering the transfer portal. It is the Wild West and it leaves fans puzzled.

Build it (the NIL Fund) and they will stay. Harsh reality; ask Mark Schmidt.

 

12/16/2022 1:39 pm  #7


Re: Building a program

Winning is a BIG factor, or not winning, like last year.
But I also think the school itself, how welcomed do the players feel on campus, NIL stuff now, fan support, student support, the facilities, and is the kid cut out for being in college all factor in.   We have awful fan and student support.   I dont know the NIL stuff.   Nice fieldhouse for sure.   I would hope the players like campus and Pittsburgh.  Winning should bring out more fans/support.   So just win baby!   Always gonna have kids leaving, but 1-3 is okay, but 7-8 isnt.  

 

12/16/2022 3:07 pm  #8


Re: Building a program

scduke wrote:

El Presidente wrote:

grammudder wrote:

Think about this.  The Dukes have one of the strongest freshman classes in their history. Dixon and Barre inside at 4 and 5 and Hronsky at the swing forward stretch 3.  Rozier at the point and Carney redshirted,  a dead eye shooter at the 2 guard.  .  Pretty strong five, huh?  What's the chances all of them are here three years from now? The thread started here brings home the dilemma the Dukes coaches face unless they super glue these guys to the campus. 

The best chance to keep most of these players with eligibility beyond this year is to win! If the recruits play on a quality team and KD can sell them on the idea that a run in the NCAAT is a strong possibility down the line there is a much better chance to keep players than if things go south and the team has a losing season IMO. Success breeds success. Or am I wearing my rose colored glasses again?

"Best chance"--perhaps. But how much of a chance? I follow closely about a dozen different college football and basketball programs--sort of a hobby. I see starters in programs on the rise without coaching changes entering the transfer portal. It is the Wild West and it leaves fans puzzled.

I don't believe winning is the answer.  Jordan Addison won the ACC championship and Belitnikoff award in football and transferred out of Pitt.  For some kids it's the money, for other kids it's playing time, and others it the opportunity to play at a school they wanted to in the beginning but didn't have the offer.  And believe me, kids getting pushed out by the coaching staff is just as big a reason as them transfering on their own.  There is no "fix" to this "problem."  Just adapt or die

 

12/16/2022 4:54 pm  #9


Re: Building a program

PhoenixRising2 wrote:

scduke wrote:

El Presidente wrote:


The best chance to keep most of these players with eligibility beyond this year is to win! If the recruits play on a quality team and KD can sell them on the idea that a run in the NCAAT is a strong possibility down the line there is a much better chance to keep players than if things go south and the team has a losing season IMO. Success breeds success. Or am I wearing my rose colored glasses again?

"Best chance"--perhaps. But how much of a chance? I follow closely about a dozen different college football and basketball programs--sort of a hobby. I see starters in programs on the rise without coaching changes entering the transfer portal. It is the Wild West and it leaves fans puzzled.

Build it (the NIL Fund) and they will stay. Harsh reality; ask Mark Schmidt.

This is the truth.  If we want these kids to stay we need a very healthy NIL fund, that's all there is to it.  If we boosters aren't willing to make it happen then the program will flounder.

A friend of mine played football at Duquesne in the early 40s.  He was drafted into the army after his sophomore year then after the war he went to Kent State instead of returning to Duquesne. When I asked him why he didn't return to Duquesne he said, "Kent State paid me more money".  It was that way 80 years ago and it's that way today.  If we want championship basketball we need to build a big NIL fund.


 

 

12/16/2022 6:58 pm  #10


Re: Building a program

I do agree with the comments above on the NIL Fund. This is something so new that most of us have little understanding of it. I should speak for myself on this. I tend to overlook the impact that this has on college sports today. Yes, by all means necessary, build the fund. I'm not any more in agreement with the entire concept than many others here or elsewhere but it is now a significant part of the college sports scene.
BTW- let's keep up our winning ways because no one plays to lose and no athlete wants to be associated with a losing program.

 

12/16/2022 10:00 pm  #11


Re: Building a program

Before NIL transferring was about playing time or exposure and opportunity to win (TJ McConnell is the exposure and opportunity to win example).  Now unfortunately it may be primarily about "show me the money".  Pitt and Narduzzi saw this with Addison leaving for USC after everyone in the country knew what kind of receiver he was at Pitt and the pros knew as well.  From what I hear Pitt has built a war chest to keep the guys they view as essential - at least in football.  In hoops you can play in East Jabib and if you are that good the NBA scouts find you.  Now you still need the amenities and culture at a college and the  opportunity to play, but even if you have all of that and someone from a Power 5 comes along dangling the green backs a school like DU has a problem.  I think the Dukes know this and there are people and alum trying to do something about it, but don't you think Pitt has some big time donors and they still lose guys??  It's just free agency and adapt or die on the vine.  Pistol out.

 

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