ElDuque wrote:

CLK wrote:

Personally I believe that Amodio has set this Program back by not giving Ron more time and has severly fracture the fan base. Moreover, based on what I have seen to date from Ferry if he can do it it will take several years and better recruiting.  The problem is he does not have 9 years, or 6 years to get it done.  Based on the reactions after the RMU game if he does not turn things around this season and finish better than he did last year to provide hope to the dwindling fan base there may not be many left to care.

Amodio doesn't care what the fan base thinks. He's only comfortable with the mindless numbots who share his equally shallow knowledge of how to build a program. You saw how quickly they jumped to his aid when I suggested that he was the he who should have been fired two years ago. They're here to deflect criticism and attack the true base. Pretty sad state of affairs on the Bluff if you ask me.

So much for this thread staying friendly. Please stop acting as if I'm Amodio's agent. I like what he's done so far and would have done much of the same. I think he is a GOOD AD. Not great, not the best that's ever existed. I think he's good. When I don't, I'll let everyone know.

How do you build the program then? Start from where Amodio took over.

Last edited by steve19981 (12/16/2013 11:44 am)

Page 8 !!!!  Can't remember the last time we went to a page 8!  Also, we could be in more trouble now than when Nee was here.  This guy is only in his second year.  We know we will have a losing record.  We have no one signed.  Our guards are short.  Next year, our best player Soko will be gone.  Now here is the bad news.  Because it is only the coaches second year no one especially the AD and probably the President is going to say that this coach needs canned.  Heck, we don't even know.  Though they are terrible again, it is the second year.  So if things continue, more years of losing with people still "waiting" for us to be competitive.  That is all I want for now - be competitive.  So other than us, no one is listening to us except us!  Coach Ferry, YOU recruited our current team.  Too bad these can't be printed and sent to the President with a Christmas wish of him reading them.  But nothing is going to be done for two more years anyhow.  I do agree that if this thing isn't turned around the AD will be gone too.  EIther on his own or by the University.

Last edited by FAM (12/16/2013 12:01 pm)

CLK wrote:

duq81 wrote:

steve19981 wrote:

I think a big difference between Everhart and Dr G is that Dr G had one NCAA cali
ber team and they went to the Sweet 16 even if it was in year 9. Everhart had one NCAA caliber team that went to the second round of the CBI in year 5. 

I actually don't think RE had an NCAA caliber team in year 5. In reality, I think the team overachieved during the 11 game streak, and that overall, Ron did a good job that year. In fact, I think Ron did a good job (as far as working with the team he had) every year he was here except for one. That one year was year 2. To me, he badly mishandled what in my opinion, was by far his most talented team. A team that had several players who are currently getting paid to play. He got a bit of a pass there, because most of us were happy to just finally have a winning season. That said, make no mistake, that team should have easily made the NIT, and the NCAA's should have been a possibility. While the 10/40 move was a stroke of genius during his first year, it was not a strategy that was going to be successful long term, for reasons that I have pointed out many times. RE thought he had reinvented the wheel, and it burned him badly.

 81' I agree with you that his 5th year team overachived.  I do not think anyone going into the season  expected the Dukes to make it to the NCAA .

Not at all. I know I didn't. Sometimes, how a season unfolds can be more important than the final record. If that team had been 8-12, and then finished with the same record it did, everyone would have been saying what a great job Ron did, but because of the streak, everyone got their hopes up, and when their hopes were dashed, some people turned sour on the program. This was a bad time to stumble recruitingwise, and stumble we did, as the guys RE really wanted didn't end up here, leaving a hole in the program. which got bigger when TJ bailed. In some ways, this reminds me of the decision to fire John Carroll. This was a decision that didn't spark nearly as much controversey, but in hindsight was possibly even more questionable than the decision to fire RE. Carroll hadn't won as many games as RE, getting stuck at 13-15 for three years, but in his defense, his program had been sabotaged by the idiotic move to the MCC, and the A10 at this time, was performing at a BCS level, with UMass, Temple, and GW having powerhouse teams. The team stumbled after the NIT year, but Carroll had lined up a very talented young core that included Tom Pipkins, and Mike James. Unlike RE, I don't think Carroll was particularly well liked, which may have greased his exit, but obviously, the results that followed are what turned us from a slightly below average program, into the total train wreck that RE inherited. While Carroll never impressed me as a floor coach, he did do a good job at bringing talent into the program. I have to think that he would have been able to bring in better players than Markel Snead, and Neil Hood, to compliment his talented core.

CLK wrote:

Since memories seem to fade, this article gives some historic perspective to the prevailing astounding sentiment in the press at the time of Ron's firing, and the slander that Ron endured from the leak memo. 

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2012-03-23/duquesne-surprisingly-fires-coach-ron-everhart

I have made several points in this thread as to why this was the wrong decision, and how it currently relates to where we find ourselves with long time fans bailing on the program.  As has happened in the past in discussions on this subject my main points have been tossed aside as the discussion get turned and twisted to finding the fly poop in the pepper. 

Bottom line, Ron is gone.  Charlie has set the bar high with his prevocative comments of Ron.  Amodio has supposedly hired a coach that is the "Next Level" coach as defined in the linked article.  The only question is can Ferry take us to the next level before all of the blue seats are empty.

Just for the record, while most of us can find justification for bringing Ron back, how many years would you have added to his deal, and what would he have needed to do, to stay here beyond that extension? Personally, I would have added one year to his deal, giving it 3 years. He would have gotten a pass last year, as the team wouldn't have been very good (I know some of you guys have defended the likes of Kadeem, but those guys were role players at best, and Ron knew it, which is why he was out recruiting so hard). That said, Jack, Moore, and the other guys that RE brought in, would have had to show clear progress this season, in order for RE to stay. Not a particular record, but strong play down the stretch, and some wins over good teams would have been enough to buy him another year or two. However, he would then have had to put a very good team on the floor the following year, at least an NIT team.  Endless 15-17 win seasons would eventually not be enough.

The dismissal goes both ways, sir, but I've conceeded several points so far in this argument.

Completely agree with your last paragraph.

steve19981 wrote:

ElDuque wrote:

steve19981 wrote:

So much for this thread staying friendly. Please stop acting as if I'm Amodio's agent. I like what he's done so far and would have done much of the same. I think he is a GOOD AD. Not great, not the best that's ever existed. I think he's good. When I don't, I'll let everyone know.

How do you build the program then? Start from where Amodio took over.

Steve, since I didn't name names, why do you feel the need to self-identify?

Because whether you're being passive aggressive or not, I still know who you're talking about and if nothing else, I'm part of that generalized mass. 

But go ahead play this one off, too.

I wasn't referring to you. That said, should I expect another call from L-T?

MrBrightside wrote:

CLK and El D, you guys know where I stand on letting RE go, so no sense to rehash that and my belief that GA has done a reasonably good job, but you should know that I couldn't agree more with your statement CLK: "Based on the reactions after the Robert Morris game...........................there may not be many left to care."  As the late, great columnist Sydney Harris used to write, "some things I think I think" (or something like that), so I offer the following:
(i) although we can only move forward no matter how much we want to debate history, I am just disgusted with DU men's bball, period;
(ii) I will not attend another game or give another $ until there is verifiable progress (which I know is subjective);
(iii) I don't care who is at fault anymore;
(iv) we are a joke to most people who follow basketball locally from the people I've talked to;
(v)  there is no fan base for 99% of people (Steve excluded) under 40 years old and the older fans (over 50) are slowing dropping off year to year, just look at the blue seats;
(vi) I do not plan to even renew the 1 season ticket I dropped down to if this isn't turning around THIS YEAR [see (ii) above];
(vii) as my buddy said there are certain games you just have to win to hold together the shred of belief and fans left and as CLK implies (and I agree wholeheartedly) the Bobby Mo game was arguably the most important.
 

No matter who you blame (if anyone) for the current state, the sentiments expressed by Mr. B have been echoed by many.  This signals a basketball program that is in seriously jeopardy of surviving at the D1 level. 

I really hope the Administration realizes how upset and fed up people are.   If they don't, they are sticking their heads in the sand. 
 

CLK wrote:

81' if I am not mistaken I believe that Ron had one year left on his contract.  I believe he should have definitely been allowed (earned the right) to have the remaining time on his contract, particularly if he was assembling the kind recruiting class in the article below.  I expect the nay sayers will chime in and dispute that Ron would have signed these other guys, but I have heard from guys very close to Ron that indeed Clark  and Taylor had commited to Ron, and he was very close on the others mentioned.  I think we would be in a very different position today and Ron would have earned an extension.  We will never know.

http://triblive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/college/s_788366.html#axzz2nfAIsPXD
 

Ron had 2 years left on his deal. He recieved a well deserved full extension after the NIT year. He needed to have another year added to his deal, as you can never allow a coach to go into his final year. Two years with the new class would have been fair. If there wasn't clear progress towards our ultimate goal after 8 years on the job, you pay off his last year, and move on, and there would not have been many people questioning the decision. Of course GA would likely have been fired as well, which is why I will always feel, is the reason why he pulled the trigger when he did, to protect his own ass.

Last edited by duq81 (12/16/2013 3:32 pm)

MrBrightside wrote:

CLK and El D, you guys know where I stand on letting RE go, so no sense to rehash that and my belief that GA has done a reasonably good job, but you should know that I couldn't agree more with your statement CLK: "Based on the reactions after the Robert Morris game...........................there may not be many left to care."  As the late, great columnist Sydney Harris used to write, "some things I think I think" (or something like that), so I offer the following:
(i) although we can only move forward no matter how much we want to debate history, I am just disgusted with DU men's bball, period;
(ii) I will not attend another game or give another $ until there is verifiable progress (which I know is subjective);
(iii) I don't care who is at fault anymore;
(iv) we are a joke to most people who follow basketball locally from the people I've talked to;
(v)  there is no fan base for 99% of people (Steve excluded) under 40 years old and the older fans (over 50) are slowing dropping off year to year, just look at the blue seats;
(vi) I do not plan to even renew the 1 season ticket I dropped down to if this isn't turning around THIS YEAR [see (ii) above];
(vii) as my buddy said there are certain games you just have to win to hold together the shred of belief and fans left and as CLK implies (and I agree wholeheartedly) the Bobby Mo game was arguably the most important.
 

I agree that at this point the only thing that matters is the survival of the Program.  Please do not refer to me as Mr. Brightside after I say this, but there is still time for Ferry to turn it around this year and provide some hope (although I understand that the RMU loss was the last straw for many).  To me it means winning out the non conference schedule and winning at least three or four league games, and having a steller recruiting class.  It is a tall order but if he is a next level coach it is time to step up and prove it.

CLK, I couldn't agree with you more, on all points actually.  I an not sure I follow the reference to me in the post though, but I am not taking that as a slight. I think we all are pretty much in the same boat at this juncture.

I like Ridenour at the point -- for now. I'd like to see him recruit a couple 6-4 kids who can handle the ball.

I watched the game and thought we looked confused by the zone. We certainly played that way.

duq81 wrote:

Ron had 2 years left on his deal. He recieved a well deserved full extension after the NIT year. He needed to have another year added to his deal, as you can never allow a coach to go into his final year. Two years with the new class would have been fair. If there wasn't clear progress towards our ultimate goal after 8 years on the job, you pay off his last year, and move on, and there would not have been many people questioning the decision. 

'81 - although I am an RE guy, what you proposed above is all that I would ask. And I believe you're right when when you said there would not be many questioning the decision to fire Ron if there wasn't clear progress after 8 years - myself included. In fact, I think Ron would have agreed or maybe have tried to find a graceful way out before he got fired.