FAM wrote:

It depends on what your indicators are of turned the program around. I will be 100% objective here. 

Positives:
There is more energy in the program as far as interest compared to ?  Ferry -Yes     RE -I don’t know
The Coop - With KD here it was a demand
Media attention - Yes, both local and national. (Thank LeBron n Dru Joyce for some of it)
Recruiting - I can’t tell but it’s not worse

The Negative is real simple. This is results oriented. I won’t ever do predictions again for the team in terms of wins and losses. My two thoughts for success are always the same.
1.  Be competitive.  (This has been achieved.). I now watch games thinking we Can win 
2.  Get into the NCAA/NIT - Has not happened and though it’s early, we aren’t getting an NCAA at large bid this year either. Our only hope is winning the A10 or getting an NIT bid. 

So, do I think Dambrot turned the program around in 7 years? No, not significantly. (My opinion)

With that said I believe he has rotated it a bit and has a positive impact. But with no tournaments, does it matter???
Go Dukes

Just to add a few facts. It took KD 7 yrs to get to 99 wins, but RE did it in 5yrs?  RE got to the A-10 finals in 3 years. KD, we are still waiting. RE beat ranked teams, (Xavier, Temple) KD, zero. The last two games should have been wins with the talent on this team. If we couldn't beat those two teams then just imagine the rest of this A-10 season?

Good points by both Napa and Wildwood above!  I’ve been hoping against the obvious that Dambrot can get it done; but he cannot.  He is over his head in this league against the likes of Frank Martin, Anthony Grant and others. 
I would ask that Dambrot be evaluated not by comparing his record to Jim Ferry, but by considering what could have transpired with another coach given the money and support that has been provided to Dambrot.  Even if you compare him to RE he hasn’t thrived.  Clearly, the program needs to move-on from Keith, but in what direction?  The coaching competition in this league is very tough right now.  You have Martin, Grant, Ryan Odom, Archie Miller, all guys who have had great success and competed and won big games in the NCAA Tournament.  Can you really expect an unproven assistant coach in Dru Joyce, a Dambrot disciple, to raise this program to new heights by bringing in leftover midwestern recruits from Ohio and Michigan?  I see that as another move that will fail.

Last edited by levon1975 (1/07/2024 4:27 pm)

KD has improved the program enough in one very significant way. If the current team were to finish with a record a few games over.500 & the coach were to move on with little fanfare, I believe Duquesne's head coaching position would be a far more attractive one than it has been to quality coaches than it was the last 4 times a new coach was hired.

These are my reasons why:
-Modern arena & team facilities
-The new regime would be taking over a program that has had competitive teams 3 of the 5 previous seasons
-KD has demonstrated that DU can attract good, mature talent through the portal
-Recent proof that the current university administration will spend at mid-to top tier A-10 levels to get where they want to go
-A stronger salary should be a available to offer strong candidates  because the university won't be on the hook for a contract buyout for the outgoing coach.

KD deserves some amount of credit for each of these reasons albeit to varying degrees.

As a total package, KD has not been & will not be the coach to fully turn this program around to a point that would be satisfactory for the vast majority of posters & fans. 6.5 seasons has amply demonstrated this basic idea.

I, like many other posters, thought it ludicrous when Jim Ferry suggested it might take 10 years to make DU  a consistently strong A-10 program. Perhaps he was closer to correct than any of us knew.

Last edited by phil95 (1/07/2024 6:38 pm)

CityDuke wrote:

Just to provide some important context for some of these facts....comparing Dambrot's time to achieve 99 wins compared to RE's 99...The covid season cut the season of probably our best team in the Dambrot era short. They were playing some great basketball and poised to make a post season run.  And the following season was a considerably shortened season also due to covid. 

Also, the away non conference win was less about inability to win on the road (see road A-10 wins during the Dambrot era), and more about a lack of road non-conference opportunities.

His recruiting has been a step up without a doubt (my opinion).  His ability to find diamonds in the rough is unmatched at this level.  His ability to retain some of said diamonds is another conversation, but this has more to do with the landscape of college basketball and mid majors (my opinion).

As far as after Dambrot,  I think a lot of you are undervaluing the Joyce/James connection and also overvaluing the possibility of landing a more established coach than Dambrot.  I would love to have a youthful, energizing, something-to-prove coach like Joyce take over our program.  He is, to me, the best we are going to get.  It's a more fluid transition for our current players, and his connection will get us even more in terms of talent than Dambrot's (my opinion).

Absolutely, Joyce is a game day coach, like RE. Real BB players that see the game in real time and call adjustments. KD, like Ferry are just "formula  coaches" that play the same starting line-up, and sub in at a certain time on the clock no matter what is happening on the court. No real understanding of what is happening in the game, nor how in anyway,  to out-coach his opponent. Joyce, however,  is likely, the kind of coach that sees the game as a player and adjust. Not since RE, ( a real player) have we out coached any team. If Joyce doesn't get a chance, then this Admin. is dumber then dumb.

CityDuke wrote:

Just to provide some important context for some of these facts....comparing Dambrot's time to achieve 99 wins compared to RE's 99...The covid season cut the season of probably our best team in the Dambrot era short. They were playing some great basketball and poised to make a post season run.  And the following season was a considerably shortened season also due to covid. 

Also, the away non conference win was less about inability to win on the road (see road A-10 wins during the Dambrot era), and more about a lack of road non-conference opportunities.

His recruiting has been a step up without a doubt (my opinion).  His ability to find diamonds in the rough is unmatched at this level.  His ability to retain some of said diamonds is another conversation, but this has more to do with the landscape of college basketball and mid majors (my opinion).

As far as after Dambrot,  I think a lot of you are undervaluing the Joyce/James connection and also overvaluing the possibility of landing a more established coach than Dambrot.  I would love to have a youthful, energizing, something-to-prove coach like Joyce take over our program.  He is, to me, the best we are going to get.  It's a more fluid transition for our current players, and his connection will get us even more in terms of talent than Dambrot's (my opinion).

To be far with your evaluation. RE's best team was shot !!! that first year. Then he had to pick up the peices, with less than a D-2 team, he ran a 10-40  style, and ripped off 5 strait A- 10 wins, which KD never. but never, did. Ron did more with less than any coach in DU history.

Wildwood, good points. It makes me wonder if the A10 was or is too much for him. It is a step up from the MAC and he has not gotten to the level he thought he could. It’s a question, maybe without an objective answer.
When you think about it, there are only 3 months left on Dambrots 7 years. As far as coaches, it looks like Fordham, which has a lesser place to play and history may have hired an excellent coach. Can we do the same?

Lot’s of excellent discussion on this topic guys.  One point I’d like to correct is that unlike Keith Dambrot, Jim Ferry was a college player at Keene St.  He was the team’s leading scorer for two years and team captain, so he is able to draw on his experience as a player.  Dambrot was never a basketball player, and although he has compensated well enough to make $1million a year as a coach, I do believe it does mean something.

Last edited by levon1975 (1/07/2024 10:52 pm)

Duquesnes tuition is ridiculous and Pittsburghs  population is decreasing.The University needs national recognition to keep the enrollment from dwindling.A good basketball team going to a NCAA tournament
makes Duquesne more attractive nationally.This isnt 1970,the school is in strong financial shape.
 

Can you imagine if RE had Gormley, the current AD & the Cooper Center. In fact the old A10 was so much better than the current conference. Dr. Chuck & the Quinipiac Clown clueless. In regard to Dambrot he has done a solid job  with  however the benefits of the aforementioned 3 keys.

scduke wrote:

Some semi-random thoughts:

Unless DU has lowered its expectations when it fired RE, the program has not turned around. Was there not a secret memo that we should be in the NIT routinely and the NCAA occasionally to justify firing RE?

JF can say it will take ten years to turn around Duquesne but I doubt he was the man to do it. His firing was more justified than RE's.

A former poster who knew KD from Akron said on this board that his non-conference schedules were like the ones we have seen in recent years. I would like to have seen more winning mid-majors like UC Irvine home and home and we could spend the money we paid  for home games only on something else.

The A-10 has been in a slump but it seems to be coming out of it.

KD said a few years ago that he didn't want to coach when he was 70. With the cupboard going to be bare, maybe now is the time to retire.

I woudn't be too quick to forsake the "Ohio Connection" (i. e., Dru Joyce). Lamont Paris at South Carolina attributes KD as the principal influence in his coaching career and he is having a very good season.. KD has done some things right. 

Nice post.

Sc Duke/Napa - good post!!

Last edited by FAM (1/09/2024 2:06 pm)

Agree with the idea of not hiring Joyce. Need an up and coming assistant from a good program in the east. The Ohio/Michigan thing isn’t working great.
Transfer portal can help but fans must remember that a team like Duquesne isn’t going to get a high quality power five player. These transfers within mid-major teams are not always great either. There are many reasons why a player is in the portal and most aren’t good. Things seem to indicate that a portal guy from a lesser than mid-major program can work. Doesn’t Umass have a couple of starters from lower level teams? Dambrot has at least brought a level of respectability to the program but there still are many reasons why the next level can’t be achieved staying the course