The bottom line is that we are stuck with what we have.  We signed a massive contract to get Ferry and there is no way Duquesne could afford to get rid of him.  I don't think Ferry should be let go anyways, he deserves four years, but if I don't start to see improvement (and like you, I sure as heck don't think we will see it next year) I will want a new coach.  

Let me say the players are all working hard, I respect that.  There is some talent on this team but not enough to succeed in the A10 especially with the kind of system JF is teaching.  The majority of the problem is the style of play with the inability of the coaches to teach defense. The players are are being recruited here to play AAU basketball.  The philosophy of "catch us if you can" and outscoring your opponent  is not going to work without playing respectable defense in the A10.  This has not been JF's history.  JF even in his best years at LIU had poor defensive squads.  In 2012 for example when he went to the NCAA his team was ranked 331 out of 338 in total defense.  That is not going to work in the A10. I honestly do not see another win in the A10 this season the way this team plays.  I would rather see us developing guys like Lewis, Watkins and Ridenour by giving them experience and teaching them to play solid defense (if that is possible). 

Last edited by CLK (1/16/2014 1:01 pm)

ElDuque wrote:

We have at least three scholarships next year: Soko's, Jerry Jones', and Mamadou Datt's (he was never replaced). If we never qualify Jordan Robinson, we may have four. Everything else you say is true.

Interestingly, the mood on the Yuku board seems a little lighter. This is not meant to be provocative, and in fairness I only scanned the board, I'm only saying I did not see any measure of angst about the performance of the team.

If Jimmy Ferry does not succeed, he will join the long list of failed coaches to which I do not ascribe Ron Everhart, Greg Amodio will make another smart hire, and life as we know it will go on.

I think yuku's a little lighter because it generally is a little lighter all the time. Also not meant to be provocative. I can't speak for other people who post there, but I think I've reached the point of "it is what it is" with them. The team is also not that much different from what I envisioned though I never imagined the defense would struggle the way it has. 

I also don't think  you can say the players Ferry's brought in so far are busts, and I think they

1) are extremely young
2) are decent but nothing special. Nobody looks like they can't play some role in the A-10 or develop into a role in the A-10.

I hope Ferry doesn't clean house. I wouldn't expect the next class to save us one way or the other because next year's class rarely does. The Dukes are better off building from within IMO with the exception of adding a JUCO big to the mix. They have players with some upside. It's a matter of giving them time and helping them get there.

I also don't think this team is as bad as they showed in the first half. That was their worst performance of the year on defense for a defense that has generally been trending up since the West Virginia game. Offensively, the Dukes just missed shots early. They created decent to good looks and just didn't finish. Even in the handful of possessions that the Dukes defended well in the first, St Joe's still hit their shots. The teams is not that good and inexperienced. That type of half will happen on the road.

I don't like Ferry's half court defensive system most of the time. Too much sagging on the opposite side, too much help defense, too much switching. I think some of that might be because he doesn't trust his players to defend one on one.   However, my biggest concern with him is that he's missed on all of his primary recruiting targets thus far. Castro, Notice, Severe, Luther. Land just one of those players and the outlook is much better. I think people would have a love hate relationship with Severe. Castro probably isn't ready. Notice would make this team a lot better at both ends.
 

Last edited by steve19981 (1/16/2014 2:12 pm)

Steve, most of the folks who post here have suffered for generations, not just a couple of years. So the vented frustrations are, yes, a little sharper; the mood when people realize we are facing yet another wasted year is, yes, a little darker; and the willingness of people to quit on team, coach and program is, understandably, a lot more painful. Although people like me get characterized by at least one of the Yuku posters as "cyberbullies" on outlets such as Twitter (ps, if someone is going to throw rocks, do it here so we can have a fair exchange of ideas), I don't think some folks understand the investment that has really been made by the folks who post here. Some of the posters here have given gobs of time and money and other resources to Duquesne basketball, in many different ways. Even the presence of this board - like the Yuku board - represents an investment on the part of many.

If you've been lurking quietly here, you know I've been defending Ferry and this team all season. I'm out of bullets.

I don't think Amodio's in any kind of trouble, whether this program wins, loses, or folds its tent. He now has a couple A-10 championships, the women's sports are doing well, there are no problems with any of our athletes, his wife works for a member of Duquesne's board, and I think he has a job here for as long as he wants.

Ferry has been given resources that Ron never had, he has a couple years worth of contract protection, and maybe he'll get lucky and have a winning season down the road and placate Greg and Dr. D. into extra time or an extension, and we'll have a repeat of the Jim Satalan era. Seven years of basketball down the drain.

I think in a couple of years we will look back to the time of Ron's firing and understand, universally, that the mistake that was made was by Dr. D. when he sided with Greg, and didn't do his coach - who did more for this program than anyone since Red Manning - a favor by replacing the AD and counseling Ron about surrounding himself with better people.

In the meantime, I'm hoping we can find a PG, another shooter, someone who can get Robinson declared eligible in my lifetime, and a few more cupakes to schedule so we can sniff .500 again some day.

I have followed the Dukes just about as long as anyone who posts here and like most am disappointed in the programs fortunes or lack of them. I only caught the last 4 min of last nights game on Espn game cast
But quickly realized the Dukes had been down by 37 and came a ways back to end at 9 down. The Joey's comments were guys who lost on the point spread more than true fans.

This A-10 is a strong conference, to win on the road is next to impossible for young teams like Duquesne.


Duquesne's guard play ,which was once the strong point of the program, is really lacking this year.

There is more than getting hot for a night  teams have near record breaking shooting nights against us.

The league coaches had no malice when they pre season voted the Dukes as last place, they could best judge the talent and short comings of Duquesne.

I haven't met Coach Ferry but have heard good things about him, unlike RE, he is not a quick program turn around like Ron. I also don't know it was time for Ron to go, he only had success here. But we have what we have.

I guess I will always be a fan but hope in my lifetime we could return to the days when we barely lost at home and stole a few on the road and upset a top twenty team every year or so.

There was a game in early 1990's under JC, we were down by 18 to a top 10 team and came back to upset Florida State with Charlie Ward at point and Bob Sura who we recruited hard. AJ was rockin with a full house.

I would just like to see that happen one of these days.

Phildog wrote:

I have followed the Dukes just about as long as anyone who posts here and like most am disappointed in the programs fortunes or lack of them. I only caught the last 4 min of last nights game on Espn game cast
But quickly realized the Dukes had been down by 37 and came a ways back to end at 9 down. The Joey's comments were guys who lost on the point spread more than true fans.

This A-10 is a strong conference, to win on the road is next to impossible for young teams like Duquesne.


Duquesne's guard play ,which was once the strong point of the program, is really lacking this year.

There is more than getting hot for a night teams have near record breaking shooting nights against us.

The league coaches had no malice when they pre season voted the Dukes as last place, they could best judge the talent and short comings of Duquesne.

I haven't met Coach Ferry but have heard good things about him, unlike RE, he is not a quick program turn around like Ron. I also don't know it was time for Ron to go, he only had success here. But we have what we have.

I guess I will always be a fan but hope in my lifetime we could return to the days when we barely lost at home and stole a few on the road and upset a top twenty team every year or so.

There was a game in early 1990's under JC, we were down by 18 to a top 10 team and came back to upset Florida State with Charlie Ward at point and Bob Sura who we recruited hard. AJ was rockin with a full house.

I would just like to see that happen one of these days.

Phil you should read the other thread.  Martelli had mercy on the Dukes and took his starters out midway in the second half when he was up by 38.  He then put in his walkons when he was up by around 30 with 5 minutes left.  DU responded by putting in their starters and pressing.  The come back against walkons means nothing to me.

Last edited by CLK (1/16/2014 3:31 pm)

CLK wrote:

Steve I have given up trying to convince thre vocal minority that the decision to fire Ron was correct.    Be that as it may, you will have to prove to me that Ron had the money to hire the kind of assitants he needed.  DU did not even provide him with funding to hire a secretary.  In Ron's last year he was making less than half of Ferry's base and probably as much as Ferry's top assistant. 

Yet somehow managed to win.

ElDuque wrote:

CLK wrote:

Steve I have given up trying to convince thre vocal minority that the decision to fire Ron was correct.    Be that as it may, you will have to prove to me that Ron had the money to hire the kind of assitants he needed.  DU did not even provide him with funding to hire a secretary.  In Ron's last year he was making less than half of Ferry's base and probably as much as Ferry's top assistant. 

Yet somehow managed to win.

I meant to say the decison to fire Ron was not correct.  I think you and most on this board understand my position on that.

CLK wrote:

ElDuque wrote:

CLK wrote:

Steve I have given up trying to convince thre vocal minority that the decision to fire Ron was correct.    Be that as it may, you will have to prove to me that Ron had the money to hire the kind of assitants he needed.  DU did not even provide him with funding to hire a secretary.  In Ron's last year he was making less than half of Ferry's base and probably as much as Ferry's top assistant. 

Yet somehow managed to win.

I meant to say the decison to fire Ron was not correct.  I think you and most on this board understand my position on that.

I missed the "not" not being there ... my post was meant to agree with you. 

ED I know, just clarifying for others who may be new to the board.

FAM, there is still a lot of basketball left to play this year.  While I do not hold out much hope for any more league wins based on the way they are playing, who knows maybe this team may yet surprise us.  I do not want to see this team finish last.  Not a lofty goal, but hopefully if our guys can get better and the coaches to do their job and make some adjustments a goal that can be reached.  As I said earlier in this thread it is very important for our young guys like Lewis, Watkins and Ridenour get experience and develop.  If we are building brick by brick we need these bricks to be part of a solid foundation for next season.  If Ferry can recruit a coulple more ready to play bricks, and Robinson can develop over the summer maybe things get better next season.  I know what you are thinking.  Do you prefer grape or  cherry kool aid?

Grape (:  but I can't drink it anymore... Hope I am not an OP  (:  (:

Last edited by FAM (1/17/2014 8:10 am)

Mulder wrote:

OK I only scanned this thread so I may be repeating some things and this is only the opinion of someone who is a fan, does not have the skill or knowledge to analyze the intracacies of a defensive or offensive set and is a season ticket holder for a number of years...(and I graduated in 1973 so I am one of the old ones)...

I don't see how you look at Ferry at this time and be this critical.  I see the arguements - these are his kids, this is his second year, it took him 6 years or whatever to turn around LIU, his style won't work in the A10 etc.  I don't know how you argue this considering that this isn't even the end of his SECOND year and that his first year was filled with leftovers and last minute recruits.  This is his first true chance at recruiting.  It will likely take a few more years of recruiting.  He is coaching in a league that we have long known was better than people outside it recognized and now we are seeing that finally understood for the first time.  I don't see how you give up on this now.

He won 8 games with a cupcake schedule?  I don't recall seeing Duke, UNC, UCLA, Michigan or any highly competitive teams on the schedule much in the past 10 years so tell me which coach actually had a difficult schedule?

And I'm sorry, I liked Ron and was really struck by his firing but after thinking about it more and more and listening to all the arguments I don't see how you keep arguing this when you are talking about Ferry or the current team.  Over and over again this comment comes up.  It was time for him to go and time to move on.  Yes, really.  If it's because someone doesn't like Amodio, I understand that fully.  But then that's Amodio and should stand separate from Ferry and comments on his team, his recruits, etc.

Again this only comes from a long time fan, long term season ticket holder and someone who wants to see a winner as much as the next person.  I really am willing to give this a little more time and I may be the most cyncial, suspicious, "glass half empty" guy that posts here and on Yuku.

Good post Mulder. There is no doubt that Ferry has been given more to work with than RE, but RE had much more to work with than Nee, who had more than DAP. I remember DAP complaining about the cell phones, and all of the smarmy comments that came from posters in response, but of course the cell phone issue was indicative of the lack of investment in the program under Murray, and BC. Ferry hasn't missed on all of his top targets. Watkins and Robinson were very much top targets last year, it's just that they didn't drag things out like Notice and Severe did. Kind of makes me think about Nee's comment that he would walk out if he came into a gym, and saw a bunch of big name coaches there. He was trashed for saying that, but I understood what he meant. He didn't want to waste his time chasing players that he had little chance of getting. I also would like to see Lewis get some minutes here and there. The big guy has some potential, and I've seen quite a few of his type develop, and become major factors as upperclassmen. Also, at this point, it would make little sense to burn Robinson's freshman year, even if he were approved.