duq81 wrote:

Phildog wrote:

duq81 wrote:

Keep in mind that those 20 win teams by Rice and RE were nice, but not comparable to Red's 20 win teams, because of the increase in number of games. Red's last 3 20 win teams lost 4,5 and 5 games, and all were ranked at some point. Winning percentage tells the story. Red's last winning team in 1973, won two thirds of their games. Only Rice's 20-10 team has matched that. Two whole generations have grown up seeing Duquesne ranging from mediocre, to terrible, and mediocre has been so rare that those teams are seen as good.

 
I am so aware of that increase of games and still hardly ever getting twenty, 69-70 was one of my favorite teams, it had size and talent, Red would win almost all the Arena games. That year he took the Dukes on the road to play Creighton with All America candidate Cryle Batiest (sp?)', a 6-10 post, Santa Clara and San Francisco and won every game. We may have been ranked as high as 4 or 5 at one time. A disappointing loss down at WVU in the NCAA to an Ivy League School ended us at 21-4' and the best returning player, Mickey Davis quit school before his senior to sit on the bench for the ABA Pgh Pippers. The mediocre years were just ahead. Cinny was Reds replacement and Al Bailey left since he thought he should have been offered the job and the Ohio and NYC recruiting dryed up. JC brought in Efrem Whitehead. And Mike James but I can't think of any talent the Dukes have had from that area. In the 1960s Duquesne was a well regarded school there since we recruited and played black kids, All America Si Green, Fletcher Johnson, etc, when most schools but some Cathelics were Lilly white. Old history but remember in the mid 1970's Duquesne was 5th in all time wining percentage of all Division 1 Colleges.

That was 70-71, not 69-70, and they finished 21-5. The 69 team had the 21-4 record. The 69-70 team was Billy Zoph's senior year. The Dukes started in the Top 10 after the great season in 69, but stumbled early, and ended up in the NIT. The Dukes were never in the Top 5 in 71. They started the season unranked, Had the awful loss to Pitt, which kept them from playing UCLA, and had to climb into the Top 20. The Ivy League team they lost to was the Penn Quakers, who swept the Big 5, and was undefeated, and led by Corky Calhoun. This is the team that reached the Eastern Regional Final at 28-0, only to be destroyed by a Villanova team that they had already beaten. 90-47 is the second most famous score in Philly college hoops history. That Villanova team, which Duquesne had beaten during the year, reached the Championship game, and gave UCLA really the only close game in the 10 Championship games they won under John Wooden, losing 68-62. This was the Howard Porter team.
The combination of Davis turning pro, and the loss of Ed Searcy, is what sunk Duquesne. With those two, I can't see us losing more than 1 or 2 games all year. I doubt that Red would have retired had things gone as planned.
I agree 100% about Al Bailey. I thought he was much more cut out to be a head coach in the late 70's into the 80's than Cinny was. Cinicola had paid his dues though, and they weren't going to jump over him. It was kind of a "Foge Fazio" type situation, and neither school has ever recovered from it.

Thinking about the 50's, Duquesne was in a position where they likely could have pulled an elite player out of NYC nearly every year after Sihugo Green established himself here, but they allowed a displeasure with being seen as a basketball school, along with complaints from some alums about too many black players, convince them to pull the reigns in, and mildly deemphasize hoops. Must be something in the water here, as Pitt did the same thing with it's football program twice. Both times, shortly after winning a National Championship.

 Thanks for the corrections, age and time sometime cloud the memorie. Didn't Villanova forfeit the NCAA wins because Howard Porter had signed with an agent that year.  I remember that Ed Searcy starred at St. John's under Louie C. What might have been.........

please dont take this the wrong way as I respect everyones love for DU basketball. But we have to realize that the love and memories are about what is OVER. we have to live today and that means admitting we are now behind Robert Morris in talent and as a program. Other than RE we are again poor now and were terrible many decades before RE.  We need to provide present concerns to the President and AD.  The past is over and the present is awful.

Last edited by FAM (2/21/2014 10:25 am)

FAM wrote:

please dont take this the wrong way as I respect everyones love for DU basketball. But we have to realize that the love and memories are about what is OVER. we have to live today and that means admitting we are now behind Robert Morris in talent and as a program. Other than RE we are again poor now and were terrible many decades before RE.  We need to provide present concerns to the President and AD.  The past is over and the present is awful.

 Fam, this started in response toTony 84, and it just was to illustrate that once lost it is hard to get back.RE won a lot of games here but other than die hard fans, few noticed.

There will be no magic wand, I hope the change comes but since the late 1970's I have only been disappointed

lilpav30 wrote:

Good job. Why would you put DC at line with game on line? Will Ferry never learn???

 Since when does the coach determine who gets to shoot the foul shots?  How can you blame the coach?    The pressure in that situation can make even a good free throw shooter fail.  I just saw a game where a guy who was shooting over 80% from the line miss two in a situation where his team was winning and just trying to maintain the lead.  I think this situation was tough because DC knew he needed to make both just to tie.  I've seen the greatest players in the game fail in that situation.

levon1975 wrote:

lilpav30 wrote:

Good job. Why would you put DC at line with game on line? Will Ferry never learn???

 Since when does the coach determine who gets to shoot the foul shots?  How can you blame the coach?    The pressure in that situation can make even a good free throw shooter fail.  I just saw a game where a guy who was shooting over 80% from the line miss two in a situation where his team was winning and just trying to maintain the lead.  I think this situation was tough because DC knew he needed to make both just to tie.  I've seen the greatest players in the game fail in that situation.

If he's going to have the ball in his hands and be taking shots in the closing minutes, and if we're going to ever be a "next level" program, he has to hit  FTs, pressure or not. Otherwise give the ball to someone else.

BJ Flynn? The kid who transferred from Duquesne?