Westender wrote:

ElDuque wrote:

It is different. What bothers me is not a guy leaving now and then because as Web points out it happens all the time. What bothers me is that Winters and Watkins came here with high expectations and now we won't get to see how they develop. The Ferry recipe is supposed to be finding four year players and developing them, and now two good ones have come and gone without making a significant mark.

 
I don't know if there is that big of a difference in player movement between Everhart and Ferry. I agree Ron recruited kids and then let them go, but in 2 years I count at least 5 players who have left under Ferry - 3 or 4 of whom appear to have been forced out. That's not much different in my eyes. The criticism of Everhart was that there was too much player turnover - there was no mention of the reasons for the turnover. Five players in 2 years seems like a lot to me and in terms of numbers no different than under Everhart. I just ask if the same standards will apply to Ferry as they did to Everhart in assessing coaching performance and behavior on this issue. I ask with "tongue in cheek" because I know they won't.



 

If Ferry doesn't get the job done, he won't be getting any passes here. I just don't see the point of ripping him 2 years into his term. I don't count Ferry running off any of Ron's players, just as I don't fault Ron for running off those of Danny Nee. By my count, Ferry has run off two players. Both were JC guards. This is the position that Ferry has had difficulty filling. I don't know if he underestimated what it takes to be a good guard in this league or not, but the guys he's brought in this year need to be better than what he brought in the first two years, with the exception of Mason. Two players have left of their own volition. I don't think anyone really knows why Winters left, other than the thought that he felt he could play at a higher level. Watkins may have left because he didn't see much playing time in the immediate future. The lack of playing time this year puzzled me. Either Ferry badly mishandled this, or he came to the quick conclusion that Watkins didn't have the goods to play at this level. Either way, it reflects badly on him, as he either misjudged Watkins talent, or screwed up his development.

That said, barring a complete collapse this comming year, I'm not going to pass judgement on Ferry until he has four years in the books. By that time, he will have an experienced team full of guys that he brought here. Even if we aren't in the tournament, I expect that we should be solidly above .500. If that's the case, I would give him the same 2 years that Ron got, to reach the next level. If he doesn't make it, the only way he'd keep his job is if the 6th year team was a 19 or 20 win team, that had a lot of talent comming back. In that case, it would be dumb to change coaches.
 

grammudder wrote:

Pssst:  Hey guys.  Your veiled obsession of disdain, dislike or whatever you wish to call it for GA isn't masked very well.  GA ain't leaving, CD ain't leaving and RE ain't coming back for me or thee!  I admired RE as much or more than any of the posters here.  Didn't like Ferry at first. That changed.  Moreso than a revolving door of players, I believe the revolving door of coaches who couldn't supply either the talent or teaching and training led to RE's undoing on the Bluff.  Why not get over it like I think we got over the McConnell family leaving the Bluff en masse?  Say what you will about who has left or why they have left since Ferry has been coach, but when I look at what is still left in the cupboard, it ain't all that bare!!  That status is directly related to what Ferry and his staff have done or not done and has nothing to do with GA's talents or lack thereof.  Time will tell on what of value and substance remains in the cupboard, but I am still willing to bet the New Jersy Mike sub ( as I offered E.D. and other posters to this board)  that the remains of Ferry's recruits plus current recruits will produce a winning OOC and League record this year.  The focus should be on what and who are here and not who has left and who isn't or won't be here.  Mulder is spot on!!!!!

Hey Gram - the disdain or whatever you wish to call it is not veiled (certainly not intended to be), is not an obsession and certainly not masked. And as you correctly indicated, it has nothing to do with Coach Ferry - he did nothing but what would be expected. He was offered a job that was a life changing opportunity for him and his family, and he took it. And to your point about the coaches, Greg Gary, RE's best assistant, would have stayed here for a lot less money than he's getting at Purdue, but he wanted some assurance from the AD that RE would be here. Since the AD knew what he was going to do at least a year before he did it, the AD did not give him that assurance. I don't know how much this matters - probably not much- just wanted to mention it.

duq81 wrote:

Westender wrote:

ElDuque wrote:

It is different. What bothers me is not a guy leaving now and then because as Web points out it happens all the time. What bothers me is that Winters and Watkins came here with high expectations and now we won't get to see how they develop. The Ferry recipe is supposed to be finding four year players and developing them, and now two good ones have come and gone without making a significant mark.

 
I don't know if there is that big of a difference in player movement between Everhart and Ferry. I agree Ron recruited kids and then let them go, but in 2 years I count at least 5 players who have left under Ferry - 3 or 4 of whom appear to have been forced out. That's not much different in my eyes. The criticism of Everhart was that there was too much player turnover - there was no mention of the reasons for the turnover. Five players in 2 years seems like a lot to me and in terms of numbers no different than under Everhart. I just ask if the same standards will apply to Ferry as they did to Everhart in assessing coaching performance and behavior on this issue. I ask with "tongue in cheek" because I know they won't.



 

If Ferry doesn't get the job done, he won't be getting any passes here. I just don't see the point of ripping him 2 years into his term. I don't count Ferry running off any of Ron's players, just as I don't fault Ron for running off those of Danny Nee. By my count, Ferry has run off two players. Both were JC guards. This is the position that Ferry has had difficulty filling. I don't know if he underestimated what it takes to be a good guard in this league or not, but the guys he's brought in this year need to be better than what he brought in the first two years, with the exception of Mason. Two players have left of their own volition. I don't think anyone really knows why Winters left, other than the thought that he felt he could play at a higher level. Watkins may have left because he didn't see much playing time in the immediate future. The lack of playing time this year puzzled me. Either Ferry badly mishandled this, or he came to the quick conclusion that Watkins didn't have the goods to play at this level. Either way, it reflects badly on him, as he either misjudged Watkins talent, or screwed up his development.

That said, barring a complete collapse this comming year, I'm not going to pass judgement on Ferry until he has four years in the books. By that time, he will have an experienced team full of guys that he brought here. Even if we aren't in the tournament, I expect that we should be solidly above .500. If that's the case, I would give him the same 2 years that Ron got, to reach the next level. If he doesn't make it, the only way he'd keep his job is if the 6th year team was a 19 or 20 win team, that had a lot of talent comming back. In that case, it would be dumb to change coaches.
 

Watkins injury had a lot to do with his playing time and performance I'm guessing.

For whatever it is worth and you have only my sayso on this, but after the coach's shows there is usually a little informal off the record chit chat. Having been one, two or three of the persons who attended all or most of the shows, I can say unequivocally say that based on those little chit chat sessions Tysean Powell is viewed as an Ovie Soko level talent.  Hence you have Powell and McKoy or Powell and Gill as 4's.  And you will have Robinson and Lewis or Robinson and McKoy as 5's with Gill as backup to either spot.  Hence you have 5 guys for two spots.   Somehow and some way those five will mix and match as the 4-5 tandem.  My gut tells me Powell will be a key player in the 4-5 mix.  At 6'7" with a 7'4" wingspan and 215-220 lbs, why not?  I defer to Ferry's judgment of talent.  Do the math and figure where Watkins would have fit into any 4-5 schematic. My common sense tells me Watkins didn't like the way the math addded up.  

grammudder wrote:

For whatever it is worth and you have only my sayso on this, but after the coach's shows there is usually a little informal off the record chit chat. Having been one, two or three of the persons who attended all or most of the shows, I can say unequivocally say that based on those little chit chat sessions Tysean Powell is viewed as an Ovie Soko level talent.  Hence you have Powell and McKoy or Powell and Gill as 4's.  And you will have Robinson and Lewis or Robinson and McKoy as 5's with Gill as backup to either spot.  Hence you have 5 guys for two spots.   Somehow and some way those five will mix and match as the 4-5 tandem.  My gut tells me Powell will be a key player in the 4-5 mix.  At 6'7" with a 7'4" wingspan and 215-220 lbs, why not?  I defer to Ferry's judgment of talent.  Do the math and figure where Watkins would have fit into any 4-5 schematic. My common sense tells me Watkins didn't like the way the math addded up.  

 
Would love to see better judgment on guards. Except for Mason, C-/D+ won't cut it in A-10.

Simms, good point. I saw Ridenour as a C-/C this year, but you're right, he deserves the opportunity to show how he will develop. Colter and Jones, both of whom are in that C- range, also have two years before we can define their careers. But White (did anyone look at him first? or think about what he and Colter would look like together on the court?) and Binney didn't cut it in year 1, and we'll never know how they would have responded with a year to learn.

 

Simms wrote:

I see our starting lineup as the following:

PG - Colter/Dez/Jordan Stevens- let them compete for the spot
SG - Mason and Jones (Mason comes out when he is having asthma like breathing)
SF - Eric James and Jordan Stevens/ LG Gill - I'd love to see James get this spot, but that's a lot to ask of a freshmen.  LG would be nice here too.
PF - McKoy and Powell. I love McKoy's game but Powell needs to play a lot too.  Perhaps with McKoy on the floor.
C - Robinson and Lewis/Powell.  

What I like best here, is that no matter how the rotation works out, every key piece except for McCoy, will be on the team for the 2015-16 season. This has to be what Ferry is building towards. It's also nice to know, that if the team truly blows up that year, it won't be decimated by graduation, as the talent is nicely spaced out.