PhoenixRising2 wrote:

PhoenixRising2 wrote:

From everything that I have read and the consensus of this message board group, Duquesne has more talent on this team than they have had for the last 4 or 5 years.  The non-conference schedule might be the least difficult in recent memory.  The A-10 conference teams are still strong, but not as strong as they were last year.  I firmly believe these statements all to be true.

Thus, very simply, this year we are going to find out if Jim Ferry can coach at the A-10 level.  

 
Above is a post I made back in August. Can Jim Ferry coach at the A-10 level? After this season, I have more doubts than I did at the start of the season, and I had some doubts then. I hope I'm wrong.

In the DU basketball fan rythm of life summer is the height of the Kool Aid season.  No disrespect to you because we all seem to get a little high as the hyperbole from summer league reports come back, and the DU tunnel vision takes over and the weaknesses of the players are glossedover.  After the kool aid wore off in retrospect there was some talent on this team, but not the extent we all thought or hoped.  But we surely did see that the coaching stafff struggled as they went exclusively to a zone defense that proved to be the worst defense in the league and one of worst in the country.
 

I want to look at the year after next year - Let's Pretend that next year we have a winning record.  Ferry's famous L.H.T.M. (Let's Hope They Miss) defense gets better and with our two guards being seniors, we have a very good backcourt.  Here's the question, the next year after next year these guys are gone - back to the bottom again?  

FAM wrote:

I want to look at the year after next year - Let's Pretend that next year we have a winning record.  Ferry's famous L.H.T.M. (Let's Hope They Miss) defense gets better and with our two guards being seniors, we have a very good backcourt.  Here's the question, the next year after next year these guys are gone - back to the bottom again?  

Not if Castro is as good as we hope.


 

DukesFan79 wrote:

Sound familiar?

http://nypost.com/2015/03/18/fordham-fools-fated-to-same-sabotage-with-pecoras-replacement/

A little different.  Our Fools fired the only coach in the last 38-years that had a winning record every year after his 1st season at DU and led DU to the championship game in the A-10 in his third year because they were not satisfied with just winning as the goal was to get to the NCAA.  The guy who raised DU basketball from the grave and proved he could get to the Championship was fired because DU had no patience.  Now I hear some advocting patience and lowering the bar.  They would be OK with Ferry only having a winning season and getting to some low level tounament that DU spurned in Ron's final season.  Don't get me wrong.  The reality is that Ferry will get 5 possibly 6 years to prove himself.  But, he has shown no signs to date after three dismal seasons that he can even match the record of the prior coach let alone be the guy that gets this team to the NCAA.  Is the goal still to get to the NCAA?  If not let's just fold our tent and end the suffering.

BTW thanks for the article.

Last edited by CLK (3/18/2015 3:56 pm)

The refusal to acknowledge how good the league has become with addition of VCU and Davidson will continue to draw comparison with the last coach. No one disputes he did a good job. He also never got to the NCAA tournament at any of the three schools he coached at. One of these included a team with an NBA player and two NBDL players in the America East conference. Say what you want about Ferry, he has been to the NCAA tournament at his previous 3 head coaching jobs.

However it is not 4-9 years ago, and it is not Ferry vs. Everhart.  Good or bad the landscape of the A10 is drastically different. If we keep harping on the past, there will be no hope for future success.

CLK wrote:

WEB wrote:

CLK wrote:

A little different.  Our Fools fired the only coach in the last 38-years that had a winning record every year after his 1st season at DU and led DU to the championship game in the A-10 in his third year because they were not satisfied with just winning as the goal was to get to the NCAA.  The guy who raised DU basketball from the grave and proved he could get to the Championship was fired because DU had no patience.  Now I hear some advocting patience and lowering the bar.  They would be OK with Ferry only having a winning season and getting to some low level tounament that DU spurned in Ron's final season.  Don't get me wrong.  The reality is that Ferry will get 5 possibly 6 years to prove himself.  But, he has shown no signs to date after three dismal seasons that he can even match the record of the prior coach let alone be the guy that gets this team to the NCAA.  Is the goal still to get to the NCAA?  If not let's just fold our tent and end the suffering.

BTW thanks for the article.

The goal is to get to the NCAA's and nobody should ever lose sight of this:

Ron Everhart was a D-1 Head coach for 18 seasons.  He never once appeared in the NCAA Tournament. 

Jim Ferry has been a D-1 Head coach for 13 seasons.  He has been to the NCAA's 2 times. 

Which coach do you want if your goal is to make the NCAAs?

WEB you have totally missed my point.  Everhart is gone and not coming back, so your question is moot..  The only reason I brought up Everhart was that he was fired despit his succes DU had no patience to give him the 9 years it took Ferry to get to the NCAA in a lesser competitive league.  To date Ferry has given no indication that he is capable of moving this team in that direction.  Maybe next year he will.  Ferry will have his chance to prove himself.  But if DU fired Everhart after 6 six years despite some success because our Fools concluded he will never get to the NCAA, does the bar get lowered and the timeframe extended for Ferry if after year 5 or 6 iall he can manage is a winning season and a low level tournament? 

You give Jim Ferry more time because he has proven he knows how to build something into a NCAA team.  Everhart proved that he cannot do it in 18 years.  That's a huge difference that cannot be ignored. 

Im torn on how much they improved this year.
On one hand, the wins vs dayton and GW were very impressive and I can better see the offense Ferry is instilling and I like it alot. I also like the potential for this team next year.
On the other hand, the dukes did get their asses kicked in 2 of last 3 games, albeit againt top notch competition. with that said, I think a team that has significantly progressed wouldnt get their taints handed to them down the stretch. plus, defensively, they are awful

I do think ferry has some tough decisions to make in the off season. does he need to cut and run with a few players who dont fit long term and bring in a few Frosh guards to fill void when colter mason and jones graduate? I also believe he needs to take a long hard look at coaching staff. I think he needs to bring in a defensive minded guy(maybe even a former head coach). I also wouldnt mind seeing him bring in a younger assistant who played at the d1 level and can relate to the kids. there are plenty of grad assistants out there who would love to get their feet wet before heading 'home' to their big time programs. Something also needs to be done with the strength and conditioning program. we still look way too soft and weak and get pushed around too much...

I like the dukes to have a winning season in year 4 and get a postseason bid to the cit or cbi which will buy ferry and co year 5. I think year 5 will be his make or break year.(if team totally tanks year 4, i look for him to be gone, but i dont think that will happen)

CLK wrote:

I am tired of the Fallacy of Logic in concluding that Ron would never have gotten DU to the NCAA because he hadn't in the past with his prior teams. The truth is he got us close than anyone else in the past 38 years, and we don't know if he would have gotten us there if he was given 9 years like Ferry had at LIU.  It is just as much a fallacy to conclude that Ferry can get us to the NCAA because he did it before at LIU.  By that standard Danny Nee should have been given more time despite his disaterous record because he took Nebraska to the NCAA. 

But this is not about Ron. It is about Ferry and his ability to demonstrate at Duquesne in the A10 that he can get the job done.  It is stupid to say now that he should be given more time than 6 years without knowing what years 4, 5, & 6 will bring.  Ferry's future at DU is in his hands.  In his first three year all he has proven is that his team can't play defense.  What if this continues, and his team continues to srruggle?  If he is the next level coach that Amodio proclaimed he would be at Duquesne he has to start showing demonstratrive progress starting next season in my opinion to earn an extension. A winning season next year followed by competitive bubble team in year 5 and the NCAA in  year six. You all feel free to lower the bar if you want.  

Fallacy: Post hoc ergo propter hoc.  Because of this therefore always this. 

This isn't a game of logic.  It's a reality that Everhart never made the NCAA's.  I don't understand how you(or anyone) can question someone who thinks this way:

"Ron Everhart failed to get his teams to the NCAA Tournament in 18 seasons as a coach.  Maybe he can't do it.  Let's try someone who has proven he can do it." 

What is wrong with that train of thought?

WEB, READ THIS: Everhart is no longer the coach at Duquesne. 

Ferry is the coach and he now has his chance.  You seem to keep rehasing the fact that Ron never made it, and Ferry having made it to the NCAA, to deflect the other comments about Ferry's performance to date at DU. You do remember that DU hired two coaches in Edgar & Nee that had better NCAA records than Ferry and we all saw how that turned out.  So just making the NCAA in the past means nothing to me.  It is time for Ferry to put up or shut up.  I will say it again since you just skip my point entirely: "It is stupid to say now that he should be given more time than 6 years without knowing what years 4, 5, & 6 will bring.  Ferry's future at DU is in his hands.  In his first three year all he has proven is that his team can't play defense.  What if this continues, and his team continues to srruggle?  If he is the next level coach that Amodio proclaimed he would be at Duquesne he has to start showing demonstratrive progress starting next season in my opinion to earn an extension. "
 

Last edited by CLK (3/19/2015 11:37 am)

WEB's forecast regarding the future success of Coach Ferry brought to mind the Safe Harbor Statement Covering Financial Investments. This statement is shown below. As a public service for WEB, I have revised the Safe Harbor Statement in a manner that covers his posts regarding the future success of Coach Ferry. This is shown below the Financial Safe Harbor Statement

Safe Harbor Statement Covering Financial Investments
This report includes forward-looking statements covered by the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Because such statements deal with future events, they are subject to various risks and uncertainties and actual results for fiscal year 2012 and beyond could differ materially from the Company's current expectations. Forward-looking statements are identified by words such as "anticipates," "projects," "expects," "plans," "intends," "believes," "estimates," "targets," and other similar expressions that indicate trends and future events.  
 
Factors that could cause the Company's results to differ materially from those expressed in forward-looking statements include, without limitation, variation in demand and acceptance of the Company's products and services, the frequency, magnitude and timing of paper and other raw-material-price changes, general business and economic conditions beyond the Company's control, timing of the completion and integration of acquisitions, the consequences of competitive factors in the marketplace including the ability to attract and retain customers, results of continuous improvement and other cost-containment strategies, and the Company's success in attracting and retaining key personnel. The Company undertakes no obligation to revise or update forward-looking statements as a result of new information, since these statements may no longer be accurate or timely.  
 
Safe Harbor Statement Covering WEB's Message Board Posts Related To The Future Success of Coach Ferry
 
The posts by WEB include forward-looking statements based on WEB’s conviction that he has unquestionable, maybe unchallengeable knowledge of future events. Because such posts deal with future events, they are subject to various risks and uncertainties and actual results for 2015/2016 and beyond could differ materially from WEB’s current expectations. Forward-looking statements are identified by words such as "anticipates," "projects," "expects," "plans," "intends," "believes," "estimates," "targets," and other similar expressions that indicate trends and future events. Such forward-looking statements may also be based on past results which have nothing whatsoever to do with future performance and which cannot be relied upon to predict future performance.
 
Factors that could cause the results to differ materially from those expressed in forward-looking statements include, without limitation, variation in the talent and skills of the players that Coach Ferry recruits and teaches, the ability of Coach Ferry to improve the performance of the players while under his tutelage, general other conditions beyond  Coach Ferry’s control, timing of the completion and integration of new player acquisitions, the consequences of competitive factors in NCAA D1 Basketball and specifically the A10 Conference, including as previously indicated the ability to attract and retain high quality players, results of continuous improvement and other playmaking strategies, and Coach Ferry’s success in attracting and retaining other key personnel such as coaching assistants.  Web, however, undertakes no obligation to revise or update his forward-looking statements as a result of new information, since these statements may no longer be accurate or timely. 
 
 
 
      
 

Last edited by Westender (3/19/2015 8:54 pm)

rosceaux wrote:

That is quality stuff right there!

Actually, it's borderline personal. If you want to debate a poster's position, go at it, but trying to be a smart aleck is what leads to nastiness on the board. This isn't the comedy club. Keep it on basketball.
 

Simms wrote:

I  In those lower conferences, it all comes down to a conference tourny game which has too many variables of luck involved.

Truer words were never spoke.  The entire hinge of DU hoops, between being on the bubble for the Big Dance and the miserable futility that has followed since comes down to that stupid loss to St. Joe's in the first round of the A 10 tourney, which, not only burst their NCAA bubble but bounced them right out of the NIT as well.

I remember listening on line to the game and screaming obscenities as they blew that game in overtime. Little did I know how that one game would be the trigger that four years later leaves us further  from the NCAAs than ever!

Ferry had better show marked improvement next year  (over .500 and at the bare minimum an invite to one of those tertiary tournaments)
 

I think the NY Post article earlier in this thread on Fordham is telling.  Say what you will about Everhart vs. Ferry, the failure is really on the shoulders of the “Fools on the Bluff”.  They felt they achieved something with Everhart’s successes (yes he had successes) and they developed an overinflated opinion of themselves.  As a result, they made strategic errors.  Maybe the change in leadership of the University will bring opportunities in the near to mid future.  Here’s to the eternal hope that we may one day watch this tournament with our team in it.