Ironduke81 wrote:

Great book Kindle download $ 4.00... Duquesne LIU CCNY Lasalle Kentucky... Si Green Maurice Stokes & chuck Cooper Wilt bill Russell Connie Hawkins ...Next Duquesne President Players coaches should read this book indeed a golden era on the bluff.But also a very corrupt side to the sport cheating point shaving mob . Great chapter on the rise of African American players facing racism throughout the south.

College sports have been corrupt since day one. Things went on in football during the 1880's and 90's, that would make Barry Switzer blush.
 

Tramp athletes galore, the played for years under different names, these guys always looked older because they were.

Thiel College in Greeville, Pa came back in the second half to upset power Carnegie Tech one fall day when the guys from American Steel Car had to work Saturday morning and couldn't get to Oakland until the second half.
And check out the first pro basketball teams playing in wire cages, thus known as Cagers!

Now if you are talking about Duquesne in general, for sure they were a dominant force, crushing most they played. On TV when no one was, recruiting some of the best players in the game, playing 4 or more black players at a time when most schools had zero blacks on the squad. Why do you think locals like Dick Groat went else where for fame, could he have played daily with the likes of the Ricketts, Greene and the other stars on those teams. Chuck Cooper was a man amount boys. I know they came after him, but it was the same caliber of players.

The Duquesne Gardens swayed back and forth with oversell crowds of 5,000 when schools in the Big Ten were playing in 1200 seat alumni halls with slow white kids shooting two handed set shots.

The Fathers started the down turn by letting the best coaches go elsewhere , to schools that wanted to be basketball powers and still are.

duq81 wrote:

Phildog wrote:

Now if you are talking about Duquesne in general, for sure they were a dominant force, crushing most they played. On TV when no one was, recruiting some of the best players in the game, playing 4 or more black players at a time when most schools had zero blacks on the squad. Why do you think locals like Dick Groat went else where for fame, could he have played daily with the likes of the Ricketts, Greene and the other stars on those teams. Chuck Cooper was a man amount boys. I know they came after him, but it was the same caliber of players.

The Duquesne Gardens swayed back and forth with oversell crowds of 5,000 when schools in the Big Ten were playing in 1200 seat alumni halls with slow white kids shooting two handed set shots.

The Fathers started the down turn by letting the best coaches go elsewhere , to schools that wanted to be basketball powers and still are.

 

We're being a bit silly here. Dick Groat was National Player Of The Year in 1952, and was a good player in the NBA. He'd have had no problems playing for Duquesne. Some kids just want to get away from home.  I do believe the higher ups, and some alums were put off by all of the black players during that era, and told Dudey Moore to stop bringing in black players from outside of the region.  It's a shame too, as with the decline of NYC college hoops after the point shaving scandal, Duquesne could have pulled a five star player out of NYC pretty much every year if they had chosen that route. Unfortunately, the year they finally went back to such an approach, was a year they would have been better served by staying local, and going after Billy Knight instead. Moe Becker tried to tell Manning how good Knight was, and what it would take to get him, but Red wasn't willing to bring in Knight's buddy, Carl Morris, and Pitt was more than willing, as Morris was better than most of what they had then anyway.

SkepticAl wrote:

Ironduke81 wrote:

Phildog wrote:

Tramp athletes galore, the played for years under different names, these guys always looked older because they were.

Thiel College in Greeville, Pa came back in the second half to upset power Carnegie Tech one fall day when the guys from American Steel Car had to work Saturday morning and couldn't get to Oakland until the second half.
And check out the first pro basketball teams playing in wire cages, thus known as Cagers!

 
Think your missing my point Duquesne was the team in the 1950s. Nobody talks about a Fletcher Johnson while one of the first African Americans to play in Europe Italy learns language gets Pharmacy Degree. Then while playing in France learns language gets MD. Great story . I would agree point shaving has probably been going on for the last 60 years. Again good book if your bored for the summer.

One year way back when Street & Smith's (which was the Premier Hoops Magazine at the time) Had an Article about Fletcher Johnson -  THEY CALLED HIM "THE REAL DOCTOR J"
 

 
It's a shame he never got the attention he deserved especially after Duquesne he moved on with his life career ..as Chuck Noll preached. Again Pharm & Med Degree learning the languages of Freance & Italy and back in the 1950s African American men limited to hotels transportation restaurants bathroom facilities on & on ...Amazing story not just based on his athleticism.. A Duquesne Great!

Phildog wrote:

duq81 wrote:

duq81 wrote:

 

We're being a bit silly here. Dick Groat was National Player Of The Year in 1952, and was a good player in the NBA. He'd have had no problems playing for Duquesne. Some kids just want to get away from home.  I do believe the higher ups, and some alums were put off by all of the black players during that era, and told Dudey Moore to stop bringing in black players from outside of the region.  It's a shame too, as with the decline of NYC college hoops after the point shaving scandal, Duquesne could have pulled a five star player out of NYC pretty much every year if they had chosen that route. Unfortunately, the year they finally went back to such an approach, was a year they would have been better served by staying local, and going after Billy Knight instead. Moe Becker tried to tell Manning how good Knight was, and what it would take to get him, but Red wasn't willing to bring in Knight's buddy, Carl Morris, and Pitt was more than willing, as Morris was better than most of what they had then anyway.

 Knight and Morris at Braddock , Andy Zezza who moved to Shaler told me that same story about Knight and Morris when they played for him, Red wouldn't budge and Morris went to Pitt and his best friend followed the next year.

Actually, it was the reverse. Morris went to Pitt in the fall of 1969, and Knight came the next year. From what I was told, both Jim Bolla, and Mickey Martin wanted to come to Duquesne as well. As good as Lionel Billingy was, considering how things played out, we'd have been better off with the three local guys. Red probably wouldn't have retired, as his run of excellent teams would have stretched to a full decade, and made him a big name coach, and the program likely would have rolled on, and ended up in the Big East.

Becker was the coach at Braddock when Knight was an underclassman, and Zezza coached him after Becker stepped down. These guys were all part of the Chick Davies coaching tree, which made a major impact on local hoops for 30 years. Chick should have coached at Duquesne into the mid 60's, but the school just couldn't pay him. They couldn't pay Dudey Moore either.

No print copy? that sucks!  I still like to read the old fashinoned way.

Phildog wrote:

Duq 81, Morris best friend was Mooney Knight, that was the deal breaker when Red didn't want Carl Morris according to Andy Zezza because Red felt he would be a bench player, and didn't want another black kid riding the bench. Now that's what Zezza told me back in about 1973 when he coached at Shaler and we're talking about Duquesne basketball after one of his practices.

Yeah, that's exactly the same story I've heard. The thing that ticks you off, is that I don't even think there was a roster limit back then. So it's not like they would have had to pass up another player. Sad thing is that maybe Red would have considered it if we weren't riding so high back in the spring of 1969. Pitt was coming off a 4-20 season, and had nothing to lose by adding Morris. In fact, Morris was probably a good get for them, and turned out to be a solid contributor as Pitt became decent. The Dukes were coming off of a 21-4 season that saw them reach the Sweet Sixteen, and finish ranked 9th, and 10th in the polls. Red was looking to get the program back to where Dudey Moore had it in the early to mid 50's, thus he was going for big time recruits.
 

Isn't it sad this whole chain of discussion is rooted in 40-plus years in the past. It woukd be great to have a present or future to talk about.

ElDuque wrote:

Hey, at least there are signs of life here.

Seriously ... what else is there to talk about this time of year? Schedule hasn't been announced. Pro-am hasn't started. No vacation photos shared by Jimmy Ferry.

Since many of us on this board have lived long enough to see better times at Duquesne, I think it's great that we can have conversations like this. As I said above, other places on the Internet are deader than disco.

Other than the NBA, and NHL Finals, it's a pretty dead time. I lurk on other boards, and it's pretty much the same thing.