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7/25/2020 1:43 pm  #1


Best team in the Burg in 50 years !

It is the fifty year anniversary of what I think is the best college basketball team in Pittsburgh the last fifty years. Yes that would be the Dukes of 1970-1971. Below I will list what teams they beat and their accomplishments, the coaches we went up against, some of the notable players and who we lost to that year.

We beat the following teams with their rankings at the time in parentheses.
Notre Dame (#9) led by Austin Carr
St. Bonaventure (#10)
Lasalle ( #11) led by Kenny Durrett
Villanova (#17) led by Howard Porter and the NCAA championship runner up

Coaches we beat
Dave Gavitt creator of the Big East
Frank Layden Utah Jazz coach and Gm
Paul Westhead head coach of NBA champions LA Lakers and Loyola Marymount head coach
Tom Young Rutgers final four coach
Jack Kraft Villanova head coach of NCAA runner up
Eddie Sutton several final four teams
Ray Meyer a DePaul institution
Johnny Dee Notre Dame

Some of the notable players we beat their teams.
Ernie D NBA rookie of the year
Kenny Durett 2nd team All American 
Kermitt Washington 2nd team All American 
Howard Porter 2nd team All American
Austin Carr 1st Team All American
Kevin Porter 10 year NBA player

Now the losses
Western KY (#13) a final four team with 1st team All American Jim McDaniels
Pitt a rivalry game.
Boston College team coached by Chuck Daly 2 time NBA championship coach.
Penn (#4) in the first round of the NCAA. They lost one game all season to eventual runner up Villanova in the East Regional final. A team they previously defeated earlier in the year. Coached by Dick Harter.

I ask you to find a better college team in the last fifty years to match that achievement of beating ranked teams, a coaching whose who, that many All Americans all in the same season.

This year marks their fiftieth anniversary and should be honored !
 

 

7/26/2020 9:25 am  #2


Re: Best team in the Burg in 50 years !

Best team in the Burg in 50 years is the 2020-21 Dukes!

 

7/26/2020 9:55 am  #3


Re: Best team in the Burg in 50 years !

This years team, if they play this season, has no shot at defeating the numbers 9; 10, 11 and 17th ranked teams in the country. Why, because we don’t play them. This team will never face the coaching that the 1970-1971 team faced. This team will also not encounter the All American players that 1970-1971 faced. I doubt highly that they will only lose four games. I am rooting for them to do well but then again let’s be realistic. I also doubt that all five starters will be drafted by the NBA like the 1970-1971 team. I don’t like living in the past, but who the hell knows what the future holds in this day and age. The only thing this years team has the capability to match of the 1970-1971 team, is to possibly make the NCAA tournament and that unfortunately is a stretch. But a good accomplishment considering where we have been.

Last edited by Wildwood13 (7/26/2020 10:00 am)

     Thread Starter
 

7/26/2020 5:33 pm  #4


Re: Best team in the Burg in 50 years !

It’s hard to argue against the original point.  Look at the roster; and you’ll see that the team went ten deep if needed; with future starters Wojo, Roebuck, Montanez with solid McHugh and shooter Roddy coming off the bench.  Davis was a star on a national stage; and had he not left early for the ABA would have been an All-American the next season! Played a point forward position with the great Bucks team with Oscar and Kareem.  He was a most versatile player!    Big wins over highly ranked teams as well.  Mike Barr was just an incredible athlete at the point.  Very fast, agile and with long arms that created many turnovers; eventually played for several years in the ABA With the VA Squires on a team with Dr J. 
This Dukes team team could physically dominate you; or if needed run you off the court!

 

7/27/2020 7:57 am  #5


Re: Best team in the Burg in 50 years !

Wildwood13, thanks for your research in posting this. I never saw or put 2 + 2 together regarding the high quality of coaches the Dukes went up against.  And if they beat Pitt, you could have added John Wooden to that list - a rivalry game with McHugh out and Durham hurt playing very limited minutes and not the best in-game coaching job of Red's career.

Certainly no doubt that we have not seen a better Duquesne team since then.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/duquesne/1971.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/duquesne/1971-schedule.html
 

 

7/27/2020 8:03 am  #6


Re: Best team in the Burg in 50 years !

levon1975 wrote:

It’s hard to argue against the original point. Look at the roster; and you’ll see that the team went ten deep if needed; with future starters Wojo, Roebuck, Montanez with solid McHugh and shooter Roddy coming off the bench. Davis was a star on a national stage; and had he not left early for the ABA would have been an All-American the next season! Played a point forward position with the great Bucks team with Oscar and Kareem. He was a most versatile player! Big wins over highly ranked teams as well. Mike Barr was just an incredible athlete at the point. Very fast, agile and with long arms that created many turnovers; eventually played for several years in the ABA With the VA Squires on a team with Dr J.
This Dukes team team could physically dominate you; or if needed run you off the court!

Blame Sonny Vaccaro for Davis leaving. He spent his rookie year glued to the Condors bench. That 71-72 team would have been a potential Final Four team with Davis, and Searcy. That was the beginning of the decline. Red decided to recruit NYC, instead of locking up Billy Knight, like Moe Barr, and Andy Zezza told him to. Would have had the added benefit of keeping Pitt asleep. With Pitt asleep, maybe Sam Clancy joins Bruce on the Bluff.
 

 

7/27/2020 8:21 am  #7


Re: Best team in the Burg in 50 years !

Right, many mistakes were made in the process of dragging us down from a Top 10-20 program to the bottom 50.  There was the old story about Billy Knight wanting a package deal with his buddy Carl Morris included; and Allegedly Red wasn’t giving Morris a valuable scholarship; so Pitt was more than willing and got a great player while 2 of the NYC guys Left school without playing a game. 
I think the landscape was also changing nationally; and after decades of just using the program as a cash cow; Duquesne would have had to invest some money back into the program in relation to facilities, weight room a suitable on-campus facility for smaller crowds; and a first class practice facility.

 

7/27/2020 11:43 am  #8


Re: Best team in the Burg in 50 years !

Wildwood13 wrote:

This years team, if they play this season, has no shot at defeating the numbers 9; 10, 11 and 17th ranked teams in the country. Why, because we don’t play them. This team will never face the coaching that the 1970-1971 team faced. This team will also not encounter the All American players that 1970-1971 faced. I doubt highly that they will only lose four games. I am rooting for them to do well but then again let’s be realistic. I also doubt that all five starters will be drafted by the NBA like the 1970-1971 team. I don’t like living in the past, but who the hell knows what the future holds in this day and age. The only thing this years team has the capability to match of the 1970-1971 team, is to possibly make the NCAA tournament and that unfortunately is a stretch. But a good accomplishment considering where we have been.

Agreed. One of the things that gives me a love/hate relationship with this board is that everytime we have a good recruiting class, or don't lose everybody in transfers etc............. everyone is all talking about winning the A Ten and going to the Big Dance, finally!  On the other hand, when they lose the first non-conference game, the season is over!    This is a schizophrenic, at times dysfunctional fan base, but still passionate and  I love to be part of it!
 

Last edited by Tejas_Duke (7/27/2020 11:44 am)


Vicimus Atlanticum decem
 

7/27/2020 12:36 pm  #9


Re: Best team in the Burg in 50 years !

Tejas_Duke wrote:

Wildwood13 wrote:

This years team, if they play this season, has no shot at defeating the numbers 9; 10, 11 and 17th ranked teams in the country. Why, because we don’t play them. This team will never face the coaching that the 1970-1971 team faced. This team will also not encounter the All American players that 1970-1971 faced. I doubt highly that they will only lose four games. I am rooting for them to do well but then again let’s be realistic. I also doubt that all five starters will be drafted by the NBA like the 1970-1971 team. I don’t like living in the past, but who the hell knows what the future holds in this day and age. The only thing this years team has the capability to match of the 1970-1971 team, is to possibly make the NCAA tournament and that unfortunately is a stretch. But a good accomplishment considering where we have been.

Agreed. One of the things that gives me a love/hate relationship with this board is that everytime we have a good recruiting class, or don't lose everybody in transfers etc............. everyone is all talking about winning the A Ten and going to the Big Dance, finally!  On the other hand, when they lose the first non-conference game, the season is over!    This is a schizophrenic, at times dysfunctional fan base, but still passionate and  I love to be part of it!
 

What bothers me as much is the emphasis put on the Pitt game. I think it may have been a positive last year that we didn't play them. We came out of the gate focused, and maintained that focus for the most part. Beat Pitt, and we may have gotten too arrogant, lose to them, and the season's a failure. I'm surely hoping we can get this season in, even in a truncated form. We just had our best season in 48 years, and return all of our starters. This is the best position we've had going into a season since that 70-71 team. The idea of the season not being played would be the cruelest blow ever.

 

7/27/2020 1:18 pm  #10


Re: Best team in the Burg in 50 years !

Under Satalin when we started to turn the corner and boom, the rape incident. Then the Everhart years, we are in a better position then Satalin and boom the shooting incident. Now we are in better shape then Everhart and boom covid 19. We are one jinxed program. These past fifty years have been difficult.

     Thread Starter
 

7/27/2020 1:29 pm  #11


Re: Best team in the Burg in 50 years !

Wildwood13 wrote:

Under Satalin when we started to turn the corner and boom, the rape incident. Then the Everhart years, we are in a better position then Satalin and boom the shooting incident. Now we are in better shape then Everhart and boom covid 19. We are one jinxed program. These past fifty years have been difficult.

yes, but the shooting incident happened before the first ball tipped on the Everhart era and he had us in the NIT three seasons later.
 


Vicimus Atlanticum decem
 

7/27/2020 6:52 pm  #12


Re: Best team in the Burg in 50 years !

Tejas_Duke wrote:

Wildwood13 wrote:

Under Satalin when we started to turn the corner and boom, the rape incident. Then the Everhart years, we are in a better position then Satalin and boom the shooting incident. Now we are in better shape then Everhart and boom covid 19. We are one jinxed program. These past fifty years have been difficult.

yes, but the shooting incident happened before the first ball tipped on the Everhart era and he had us in the NIT three seasons later.
 

Yeah, but I think he had us positioned to do better than that before the shooting.

 

7/28/2020 10:44 am  #13


Re: Best team in the Burg in 50 years !

The college basketball landscape did change after 1970.  De Paul Coach, Ray Meyer, described it in his book.  Ray was invited to Michigan State by his friend Hud Jeathcoat.  Hud showed him the plans for a new basketball arena.  The arena was more than any other school had.  Ray sensed that the big state universities would getting serious about college basketball, rather than have it just a sport outside of football season.  It happened and the powers that used to be, mostly Catholic, were relegated to second class status.

 

7/28/2020 11:30 am  #14


Re: Best team in the Burg in 50 years !

Bilgy wrote:

The college basketball landscape did change after 1970.  De Paul Coach, Ray Meyer, described it in his book.  Ray was invited to Michigan State by his friend Hud Jeathcoat.  Hud showed him the plans for a new basketball arena.  The arena was more than any other school had.  Ray sensed that the big state universities would getting serious about college basketball, rather than have it just a sport outside of football season.  It happened and the powers that used to be, mostly Catholic, were relegated to second class status.

Those that were smart, or lucky enough to end up in the Big East avoided being kicked to the curb. That said, that's no excuse for Duquesne falling completely apart. Plenty of Catholics had success over the last 45 years, while we became a joke.
 

 

7/28/2020 12:51 pm  #15


Re: Best team in the Burg in 50 years !

Bilgy wrote:

The college basketball landscape did change after 1970.  De Paul Coach, Ray Meyer, described it in his book.  Ray was invited to Michigan State by his friend Hud Jeathcoat.  Hud showed him the plans for a new basketball arena.  The arena was more than any other school had.  Ray sensed that the big state universities would getting serious about college basketball, rather than have it just a sport outside of football season.  It happened and the powers that used to be, mostly Catholic, were relegated to second class status.

Let's remember the social changes that were going on that led to this. The Catholic schools had no problem admitting certain people who had basketball talent, while the big state schools, especially in the South, chose not to admit them.  Alabama or Ole Miss (can't recall which) still had an all white lineup in 1973!
 


Vicimus Atlanticum decem
 

7/28/2020 12:52 pm  #16


Re: Best team in the Burg in 50 years !

The landscape of college basketball has definitely changed in many ways from that era. The first black scholarship basketball player in the SEC was in 1967 and Alabama's was in 1969. Those athletes use to play up north during that time. Also I agree with the state universities found out it was a very profitable sport and reinvested their money accordingly. Also you have to realize that populations were also shifting at that time from rust belt cities to other areas. Our team from 1970-1971 had 6 of the top 7 players from the Pittsburgh area and Mike Barr was from Canton Ohio only two hours away. In Pitt's run in 1974 seven of the top nine players were from Pittsburgh. We just do not produce that type of ball player in these parts like we used to. But as far as Catholic schools go, I don't buy that excuse. Like Duq 81 said the big east is highly competitive with the state schools. ( that is almost an entire Catholic school conference). Out west Gonzaga has established itself as a year in and year out title contender. St Mary's has piggybacked off of Gonzaga and produced quality teams. Ultimately I believe it falls on the coach. Who and how he recruits and when successful, the school retains that coach.

     Thread Starter
 

7/28/2020 12:54 pm  #17


Re: Best team in the Burg in 50 years !

duq81 wrote:

Tejas_Duke wrote:

Wildwood13 wrote:

Under Satalin when we started to turn the corner and boom, the rape incident. Then the Everhart years, we are in a better position then Satalin and boom the shooting incident. Now we are in better shape then Everhart and boom covid 19. We are one jinxed program. These past fifty years have been difficult.

yes, but the shooting incident happened before the first ball tipped on the Everhart era and he had us in the NIT three seasons later.
 

Yeah, but I think he had us positioned to do better than that before the shooting.

I"m just not sure how relevant the shooting was to RE's ability to succeed to the degree that a majority of posters would be happy with over a 10-12 year residence on The Bluff. The combination of the institutional support during his tenure & his track record at previous coaching posts suggests to me that he was never going to get tit done.

 

 

7/28/2020 1:59 pm  #18


Re: Best team in the Burg in 50 years !

I’d give Ron the benefit of the doubt on that account Phil.  That team would have been loaded with talent had the shootings not taken place.  Ron was poised to make some big noise with that team; and once you break through; the train just keeps rolling; and Ron would have been able to follow up with more top talent after a big winning season. 
I also liked Satalin’s returning team prior to the rape allegations.  He had the Program headed to the NCAA Tournament!

 

7/28/2020 4:09 pm  #19


Re: Best team in the Burg in 50 years !

levon1975 wrote:

I’d give Ron the benefit of the doubt on that account Phil. That team would have been loaded with talent had the shootings not taken place. Ron was poised to make some big noise with that team; and once you break through; the train just keeps rolling; and Ron would have been able to follow up with more top talent after a big winning season.
I also liked Satalin’s returning team prior to the rape allegations. He had the Program headed to the NCAA Tournament!

Agree 100% with this. Baldonado, who was supposed to be a force inside, never played. Had the shooting not happened, I think we could have posted a .500 or better record Ron's first year, and took off from there. Maybe Robert Mitchell stays if the team does better. I will say, looking back at it with 20/20 vision, We'd have been better off had Ron not brought in Kojo Mensah. The accusations of dirty dealing didn't help the program, but more importantly, his presence probably retarded the development of Aaron Jackson. Can't blame Ron for not knowing what he had in Jackson, but knowing what we know now, he probably wouldn't have brought Mensah in.
 

 

7/29/2020 8:05 am  #20


Re: Best team in the Burg in 50 years !

duq81 wrote:

levon1975 wrote:

I’d give Ron the benefit of the doubt on that account Phil. That team would have been loaded with talent had the shootings not taken place. Ron was poised to make some big noise with that team; and once you break through; the train just keeps rolling; and Ron would have been able to follow up with more top talent after a big winning season.
I also liked Satalin’s returning team prior to the rape allegations. He had the Program headed to the NCAA Tournament!

Agree 100% with this. Baldonado, who was supposed to be a force inside, never played. Had the shooting not happened, I think we could have posted a .500 or better record Ron's first year, and took off from there. Maybe Robert Mitchell stays if the team does better. I will say, looking back at it with 20/20 vision, We'd have been better off had Ron not brought in Kojo Mensah. The accusations of dirty dealing didn't help the program, but more importantly, his presence probably retarded the development of Aaron Jackson. Can't blame Ron for not knowing what he had in Jackson, but knowing what we know now, he probably wouldn't have brought Mensah in.
 

Astute observation there, duq81. Nail on the head. Jackson was an incredible, unforeseen talent. Mensah? 

 

7/29/2020 8:19 am  #21


Re: Best team in the Burg in 50 years !

Crosseye wrote:

duq81 wrote:

levon1975 wrote:

I’d give Ron the benefit of the doubt on that account Phil. That team would have been loaded with talent had the shootings not taken place. Ron was poised to make some big noise with that team; and once you break through; the train just keeps rolling; and Ron would have been able to follow up with more top talent after a big winning season.
I also liked Satalin’s returning team prior to the rape allegations. He had the Program headed to the NCAA Tournament!

Agree 100% with this. Baldonado, who was supposed to be a force inside, never played. Had the shooting not happened, I think we could have posted a .500 or better record Ron's first year, and took off from there. Maybe Robert Mitchell stays if the team does better. I will say, looking back at it with 20/20 vision, We'd have been better off had Ron not brought in Kojo Mensah. The accusations of dirty dealing didn't help the program, but more importantly, his presence probably retarded the development of Aaron Jackson. Can't blame Ron for not knowing what he had in Jackson, but knowing what we know now, he probably wouldn't have brought Mensah in.
 

Astute observation there, duq81. Nail on the head. Jackson was an incredible, unforeseen talent. Mensah? 

Hard to blame Ron. He had no way of knowing if any of the players were any good, coming off of such an awful season. He actually had no plans to keep Aaron, but when Aaron strongly expressed his desire to stay, Ron liked that, and decided to keep him. Devario Hudson probably could have helped Ron's first team, but he basically cleaned house.

 

8/01/2020 9:26 am  #22


Re: Best team in the Burg in 50 years !

I see the Ajax situation differently. As far as I am concerned,RE was a party to mostly wasting 2 years of one of the best Dukes players of the last 30 years.

I certainly don't know what kind of teammate/practice player AJax was. Maybe he was a problem child his sophomore & junior years? That seems out of character for him.

RE certainly praised AJax's bravery & poise for his actions immediately after the shooting; carrying another player to safety, etc...

I have a hard time believing Baldonado was going to be anything special based on his later troubles. Likewise, I have never been a proponent of assigning value to players that never saw the court at Duquesne, left, & amounted to nothing noteworthy as a player at their next stop. In Stuard's case, his minor league pro career doesn't do anything to make me spend time on what-ifs. In any event, Baldonado wasn't going to make RE's first team a winner.

RE got the train rolling quite nicely. After year 3, I was sure it was really going to happen. It was the 3 consecutive years of falling apart in February/March with solid, (if not spectacular) A-10 talent & experience compounded by the revolving door personnel issues that did him in rather than any residual effects from the shooting 4-6 years earlier.

 

8/01/2020 9:56 am  #23


Re: Best team in the Burg in 50 years !

I believe after the shooting, RE had to recruit a different kind of player. I know that I recommended a player I refereed in a top notch AAU tournament. I talked to the player and he said he would be very interested in coming to Duquesne and he liked the fact that he would play in his home town a few times a year so his parents could watch him play. He was 6'10, a straight A student that would cause no worries on or off the court. RE said he doesn't fit into the type of player we can use. Jake Cohen went to Davidson and was named freshman player of the year and his last two years was conference player of the year in the Southern Conference. Now how could a kid of this talent not fit the type of player you need or want ? Now think of the kids that RE recruited, which I think led to his dismissal.

     Thread Starter
 

8/01/2020 3:47 pm  #24


Re: Best team in the Burg in 50 years !

phil95 wrote:

I see the Ajax situation differently. As far as I am concerned,RE was a party to mostly wasting 2 years of one of the best Dukes players of the last 30 years.

I certainly don't know what kind of teammate/practice player AJax was. Maybe he was a problem child his sophomore & junior years? That seems out of character for him.

I don't believe there were any problems with Ajax. He played a lot during his sophomore year, but as a junior, Kojo was there taking minutes. I think the perception going into the season was that Kojo was going to be a great player, based on what he did as a sophomore at Siena. It didn't work out that way, and to me, giving him so many minutes was a hindrance to Ajax becoming the leader of the team. As I said before, I understand why RE brought Kojo in. He was taking over a 3-24 team, so it was easy to assume that none of the players, including Ajax, were worth a damn.
If you go on sports reference, and look at the 2007-08 season, you'll see that not only was Ajax clearly the better player, but that the two best players on the team by a wide margin were Shawn James, and Keiron Achara. Shawn played 23.8 minutes a game, while Kieron played 19.1, not nearly enough, and that in a nutshell, is why the team underperformed. This was due to 10/20. The best players were not on the court enough. One thing I'll say about KD, his best guys are on the court as much as possible.
 

 

8/02/2020 12:16 pm  #25


Re: Best team in the Burg in 50 years !

One of my favorite what-ifs is, "what if James came back for his senior year & Kojo still moved on?".

You hit the nail right on the head. The wacky substitution pattern & ever-changing starting 5 messed with team chemistry in a big way.

 

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