levon1975 wrote:

You guys are really too much.  I'm not the designated Jim Ferry defender here; I'll leave that to him. If he doesn't get it done, he'll meet with same fate as our previous coaches.   I'm just trying to point out what I perceive to be weaknesses in your arguments.  I believe the comments were about RMU anyway, and not the never-ending RE debate.  I don't think RE is coming back; but if by some bizarre turn of events that would happen,  I would support him, and hope for the best for the program.

Levon, you're not referring to me, are you? I have not brought up any coach's name except Ferry. I'm not looking to see him fired, and I sure as heck hope he turns this around, because the one thing I disagree about with you and many others is that if Ferry fails we'll simply hire another coach. I see a continuing decline in support for the program (it's about more than money, although in that sense Ferry has had more resources from which to draw than any coach in DU's history). My fear is that if Ferry fails, someone gets the "bright" idea to de-emphasize the program, or worse, decides to pull the plug on it.

So in wanting to see the program succeed, yes, I will continue to chip away against anything that does not look like success to me.

ElDuque wrote:

levon1975 wrote:

You guys are really too much.  I'm not the designated Jim Ferry defender here; I'll leave that to him. If he doesn't get it done, he'll meet with same fate as our previous coaches.   I'm just trying to point out what I perceive to be weaknesses in your arguments.  I believe the comments were about RMU anyway, and not the never-ending RE debate.  I don't think RE is coming back; but if by some bizarre turn of events that would happen,  I would support him, and hope for the best for the program.

Levon, you're not referring to me, are you? I have not brought up any coach's name except Ferry. I'm not looking to see him fired, and I sure as heck hope he turns this around, because the one thing I disagree about with you and many others is that if Ferry fails we'll simply hire another coach. I see a continuing decline in support for the program (it's about more than money, although in that sense Ferry has had more resources from which to draw than any coach in DU's history). My fear is that if Ferry fails, someone gets the "bright" idea to de-emphasize the program, or worse, decides to pull the plug on it.

So in wanting to see the program succeed, yes, I will continue to chip away against anything that does not look like success to me.

I'm with you ED. I've stated repeatedly, Ferry is my last shot. If he fails that's it! I think there are a lot of other alums, and many in  the Admin.,  who feel the same way.  it will then be literally 40 years in the wilderness and the program will be de emphasized!
 

Tejas_Duke wrote:

I'm with you ED. I've stated repeatedly, Ferry is my last shot. If he fails that's it! I think there are a lot of other alums, and many in  the Admin.,  who feel the same way.  it will then be literally 40 years in the wilderness and the program will be de emphasized!
 

It's already been 40 years. 1973-74 is when the program went under water, and other than it's head coming up to gasp for air a couple of times, it's been there ever since.
 

Levon, like I keep saying: Just. Win. Or at least show us something worthy of generating real hope. I think the advanced case of unhappiness that many of us have is at least in part to the glowingly optimistic reports that have been fed to us about the system, the players, etc. Reminds me of the old Mike Tyson line when a reporter told him an opponent had a plan to beat him. Tyson said, "Everyone has a plan until they get hit in the face." This is year 4 for Ferry and honest to goodness, I need to see something. I need to see more wins than losses, I need to see Duquesne stomp on lower level opponents and bloody teams that come in as heavy favorites to beat us. I need to see games scheduled against better opponents, to tell people that we're serious about developing our fan base (who wants to see some of the crap that's been dragged into Palumbo?). I need to see the president and AD at least pretend to care. But above all, I need to see some real, consistent winning.

We can bodda-beep, bodda-boop, badda ba all we want about what it was like when Ferry got here, the fact is we've seen no progress in three years. Take away Soko last year, and we're probably a 5-6 win team. Meanwhile, Hurley is turning URI around, other programs are being transformed into winners faster than you can imagine, and we're stuck in the mud.

Just. Win.

How many assit. coached from top D-1 schools turn head coach have been winners vs bringging up head-coaches from lesser league??  Dixon was an assist. that Pitt didn't even want at first?  Lots of low D-1 head coaches are given a chance instead?  Which is better, an assist. coach, trained to win, or a low D-1 coach moving into a over-their-head position?  Are we ever looking in the right places for the next coach in the first place?  Really, want to get there, find an assist. coach that comes from a program with a LONG winning tradition. Just a thought.    

NapaDuke wrote:

How many assit. coached from top D-1 schools turn head coach have been winners vs bringging up head-coaches from lesser league??  Dixon was an assist. that Pitt didn't even want at first?  Lots of low D-1 head coaches are given a chance instead?  Which is better, an assist. coach, trained to win, or a low D-1 coach moving into a over-their-head position?  Are we ever looking in the right places for the next coach in the first place?  Really, want to get there, find an assist. coach that comes from a program with a LONG winning tradition. Just a thought.    

 Coach K, Bobby Knight, and John Wooden were all head coaches at low level programs before they got the jobs that made them famous. So was Jay Wright. John Thompson was a high school coach who took over a garbage program, and built it into a powerhouse. Billy Donovan was another low level coach who made it big. Bo Ryan is another. Most of the guys who jumped straight from being an assistant, to coaching a higher level program, seem to have been promoted from within. Sean Miller was already at Xavier, Dean Smith was already at Carolina. I'm having a hard time thinking of guys who assistants at the big winning programs who made it as a head coach without going to a small school first. Roy Williams is the only one that comes to mind. Tommy Amaker had modest success at Seton Hall, and Michigan. John Calipari was an assistant, but he came from Pitt, hardly a long time powerhouse at the time. We've basically tried everything, with none of it coming close to returning us to what we used to be. Jim Satalin was lateral move that failed. John Carroll was a big time assistant who failed, Ron came from a small school, and had modest success.  DAP, and Cinicola were promoted within and failed. Danny Nee had been at a major school, he failed. Scott Edgar came from a small school, after being an assistant at a powerhouse, he failed too. I think the problem might be more than where the coaches are coming from.
 

ElDuque wrote:

I think it depends on the person, although, as I've said on other posts, I believe the pedigree is important. The Hurley brothers are great examples of that. I also think it's important to understand the situation into which you're getting yourself, and what it takes to win there. Look how many programs get turned around by the right guy in the right place at the right time -- programs that really have no more to "offer" than Duquesne University. Who heard of VCU before Shaka Smart? Look at what Towson has done. Just a couple of examples.

It's a shame that Duquesne hasn't produced a head coach of its own since Rice and Jarrett Durham. Look how many former Pitt players are out there right now, even though none of them are coaching the Panthers. I'm not talking about numbers, because I'm sure some smartasterisk will ask, "Besides the Millers, who is there?" Hell, those two are enough. And again, look at the pedigree there.

Here's an interesting question: With all the TJ bashing that's gone on, what if McConnell were to surface as a candidate, say, 10 years from now? My gut tells me he might be a very good coach. Would someone with a "long memory" not hire him?

I would not hire anybody unless they've proven to know how to take a team to the NCAAS as a head coach.

VCU has made the NCAA tournament 14 times since the last time Duquesne made it.

Their last three head coaches have gone on to BCS jobs:

Jeff Capel to Oklahoma
Anthony Grant to Alabama
Shaka Smart to Texas

This is hardly a program unheard of before Shaka's tenure. Every coach wins at VCU due to their university wide commitment. Contrarily, every coach loses or ends their head coaching career at Duquesne. These are not comparable programs.

DukesFan79, you keep wanting to put all of the blame on "the program." I find that ironic, and if you refer to the private message I sent you in December, you'll understand why.

Regardless of "the program," at some point, you have to recruit kids, coach them, play games, and be judged by the results. So far, Jimmy Ferry has been weighed and found wanting in those categories. Unless you want to tell me that Dr. Dougherty is the one recruiting kids who can't play at this level, that Fr. Hogan is the one who can't get them to play defense, that whoever is responsible for cleaning Palumbo is at fault for the bad three point attempts, or that Dr. Frazer is the guy who can't develop players, I'll simply tell you you're full of you-know-what.

Just. Win.

ElDuque wrote:

WEB wrote:

ElDuque wrote:

I think it depends on the person, although, as I've said on other posts, I believe the pedigree is important. The Hurley brothers are great examples of that. I also think it's important to understand the situation into which you're getting yourself, and what it takes to win there. Look how many programs get turned around by the right guy in the right place at the right time -- programs that really have no more to "offer" than Duquesne University. Who heard of VCU before Shaka Smart? Look at what Towson has done. Just a couple of examples.

It's a shame that Duquesne hasn't produced a head coach of its own since Rice and Jarrett Durham. Look how many former Pitt players are out there right now, even though none of them are coaching the Panthers. I'm not talking about numbers, because I'm sure some smartasterisk will ask, "Besides the Millers, who is there?" Hell, those two are enough. And again, look at the pedigree there.

Here's an interesting question: With all the TJ bashing that's gone on, what if McConnell were to surface as a candidate, say, 10 years from now? My gut tells me he might be a very good coach. Would someone with a "long memory" not hire him?

I would not hire anybody unless they've proven to know how to take a team to the NCAAS as a head coach.

So you would have hired Jim Ferry, Danny Nee and Scott Edgar but not Bo Ryan, Andy Toole or a hundred other guys who took their NEXT team to the NCAAs.

Yes I'd have hired Mike Lonergan. You laughed.

Duq81, would RMU consider the Horizon League? A little better conference than the MAAC, would be the eastern-most team in Horizon (Youngstown St./ Cleveland State) vs western-most team in the MAAC (Niagara and Canisius).

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