In a phone conversation with Dave Harper yesterday, and he is very accessible, he indicated that there are elements relating to basketball success that are in place at successful programs that are not present here. He hopes to make the appropriate moves here which would make it easier for any coach to be successful. While he did not get into specifics, I get what he is saying and truly appreciated the 10 minutes that he gave me. Dave had responded to an e-mail from me earlier in the day where I voiced my frustration with the situation on the bluff. I am convinced that our AD is on the job! I only hope that he has the ears of the powers that be.

Hilltopper, absent some stud transferring (basically 0 probability) I agree 100% with your assessment.  Play Lewis, JRob, Sanders and Mike.  If you can't get a good HS scholie to develop behind them then save the scholie until the Fall signing period.  I just don't want to give a scholie out just to fill a slot if we are not high on the guy.

PistolPete wrote:

Hilltopper, absent some stud transferring (basically 0 probability) I agree 100% with your assessment.  Play Lewis, JRob, Sanders and Mike.  If you can't get a good HS scholie to develop behind them then save the scholie until the Fall signing period.  I just don't want to give a scholie out just to fill a slot if we are not high on the guy.

I would try to get one more HS senior (maybe that PG that decommitted from JMU) and a transfer (would love that kid from Maine). There's a long list of transfers right now. We are much more likely to get a good transfer than a good grad transfer. As discussed previously, mid major schools are at a huge disadvantage with the grad transfer rule

Last edited by Dukes2012 (4/06/2016 10:48 am)

Mulder wrote:

Two things:

1. The argument back and forth on coaching/new coach brings up the point I was trying to make in the other thread - which I guess can be described basically as:  with all the issues here (facility, record, replacing coach after coach, etc.) what makes anyone think that another decent coach is going to want to come here?  And again I ask that not as a criticism of anyone's opinion but simply as a means to convince me that there is some hope out there.  For example, in talking about St. Louis, I don't see a Rick M. type coach ever coming here under these conditions let alone Ford. Again, not to criticize those comments - why would anyone good or young or with a future or with a past solid track record that was forced out of a bigger school etc. want to be here?

2. Not to criticize Harper who I hope is all that people say he is so far - I will be convinced that we have in place a solid AD who is given the freedom to run the department and move things here when he or she actually takes the time to ask a supporter but little guy like me what he thinks or at least acknowledge him.  I just don't think the Duquesne administration really gives a damn about men's basketball and the evidence I have is what has gone on here for about 40 years now.  Consequently I don't believe any AD is going to be able to do what is needed to move things along (for those of you with a religious bent and tying in with Easter, I identify with the apostle Tom - at least when it comes to DU basketball). 

Don't get me wrong - I want to believe (like my namesake - and the truth is out there somewhere).

 
I wish I had better answers but basically you have a great summary of the problem. I keep thinking the solution has to come from supporters stepping up, and not the ones who had Amodio's ear. That's what's dug this hole that much deeper.

rittersdiner wrote:

Just what program is going to have an early grad transfer here? UNC, Duke? Only D-II candidates would be attracted or players from worse programs. No thank you.

I think everyone is pretty much in agreement that it would be very unlikely that we could get a good grad transfer. I was talking about a traditional transfer that has to sit out a year. There are plenty of good transfers available for teams (like us) that have scholarships open

president wrote:

In a phone conversation with Dave Harper yesterday, and he is very accessible, he indicated that there are elements relating to basketball success that are in place at successful programs that are not present here. He hopes to make the appropriate moves here which would make it easier for any coach to be successful. While he did not get into specifics, I get what he is saying and truly appreciated the 10 minutes that he gave me. Dave had responded to an e-mail from me earlier in the day where I voiced my frustration with the situation on the bluff. I am convinced that our AD is on the job! I only hope that he has the ears of the powers that be.

Yes, he told me the same thing in a forty five minute conversation. Did he also mention to you that he 100% absolutely believes Jim Ferry is the man to build the program with him?  He sure as hell convinced me of that, and I really got the idea he was not just being politically correct in supporting the current coach, and not bad mouthing him even in a confidential private phone call! 

I told him that I am officially "done" with this program when he and Ken Gormly hold the press conference to announce Ferry's replacement, the coach who will.....blah...blah...blah....next level....blah...blah...blah......
 

NapaDuke wrote:

ElDuque wrote:

Mulder wrote:

Two things:

1. The argument back and forth on coaching/new coach brings up the point I was trying to make in the other thread - which I guess can be described basically as:  with all the issues here (facility, record, replacing coach after coach, etc.) what makes anyone think that another decent coach is going to want to come here?  And again I ask that not as a criticism of anyone's opinion but simply as a means to convince me that there is some hope out there.  For example, in talking about St. Louis, I don't see a Rick M. type coach ever coming here under these conditions let alone Ford. Again, not to criticize those comments - why would anyone good or young or with a future or with a past solid track record that was forced out of a bigger school etc. want to be here?

2. Not to criticize Harper who I hope is all that people say he is so far - I will be convinced that we have in place a solid AD who is given the freedom to run the department and move things here when he or she actually takes the time to ask a supporter but little guy like me what he thinks or at least acknowledge him.  I just don't think the Duquesne administration really gives a damn about men's basketball and the evidence I have is what has gone on here for about 40 years now.  Consequently I don't believe any AD is going to be able to do what is needed to move things along (for those of you with a religious bent and tying in with Easter, I identify with the apostle Tom - at least when it comes to DU basketball). 

Don't get me wrong - I want to believe (like my namesake - and the truth is out there somewhere).

 
I wish I had better answers but basically you have a great summary of the problem. I keep thinking the solution has to come from supporters stepping up, and not the ones who had Amodio's ear. That's what's dug this hole that much deeper.

The basic answer to this question is, DON'T hire another small time "big time" coach like Ferry, but give some assist. coach from a Big-time program a shot.  First, Less money to sign him vs a loser like Ferry. Second, he actually has seen winning seasons  against real D-1 teams, not that joke of a league that Ferry came from.. Third, he knows how the real teams win. Fourth, if he fails, no problem, we lose all the time and it didn't kill his career for trying to start somewhere.  Fifth, HE may actually win with nothing for recruits,  for a change, and can probably take the constant criticism for not winning enough? (Kind of what Ron got)  It's a fact, we are not going to out spend nor out recruit top 50 teams, so we had better start giving a young guy with his own ideas of winning a try.  Didn't anyone here ever watch "Glory Road" ?  Why does the conversation go to how we let this top coach get a way, or we could have got that one;  but the admin. didn't trying to get them?  First off, they wouldn't come here? Second;  we can't afford them anyway??.  That's why we got stuck with Ferry from an inferior league!! If the Admin. really wants to play D-1 BB and win for a change,  then form a committee of some former players, some alumni,some BB knowledgeable admin, and a  paid BB. stat geek, and some former coaches if possible. Then report to the President and the AD with about 20 top assist.coaches from top teams with a breakdown of each.  Don't wait till it's crunch time (like Ron's firing)  but have this an ongoing group with up to date info!!., THEN,  just maybe, we just might win on the cheep. Kind of like when Ron was here??  

I'm pretty much leaning towards getting an assistant as well. I know they fail frequently too, but we've only gone that way once (John Carroll), and it actually worked out better than any coach except Ron (and Carroll actually won an NIT game). As has been pointed out, who would want to come here? The only assistant from a top program that has shown real interest in the job lately, was Antigua, and that was partially because he went to Pitt, and is comfortable in Pittsburgh. Young coaches are advised to stay away from this career killer. We hired Ferry because no mid major coach wanted to come here. We had to settle for a low major guy, and had to overpay to get him. We will likely have to settle for an older assistant (over 45), who may have failed in his first shot as a head coach, and is no longer on the radar of bigger programs. Coaches see the string of failures here, and wonder if you can win here. We look at what Ron did as glorious, because we've been starving. Other coaches look and see an average record, and wonder if that is the very best that can be done here. They may think Ron is a solid coach, and think that if the best he can do is slightly over .500, why go there. Ron's record shines in comparison to what we've been getting, but outsiders will look at it with an unbiased eye. Ron's record eventually gets you fired at most schools in top 12 leagues, so who will come here if they think that is the ceiling? That is the drawback to firing Ferry now. Candidates will look and see that after 3 losing seasons, the team reached .500 this year, and they fired the coach. Don't want to go there. We're in a tough spot. We may have to go the Danny Nee route again. The problem with Nee, is that anyone who took a really close look at his record, would have seen that it was largely built on playing a weak ooc schedule, with lots of home games. It wouldn't have been a popular move, but a guy like Jim Baron would have been a better choice than Ferry. He wouldn't have returned us to the glory days, but I bet we'd be competitive in the league, with some trips to the NIT.
Al Skinner would have been another guy that wouldn't have been exciting, but would have won some games.

Hilltopper wrote:

If an asst is an interest then, guess what, look no further than down the DU bench, at the guy sitting next to Ferry!  Brian Nash played for a legend in the NYC Catholic league, his dad Ray!  Brian was good enough, like Ferry, to play at some D2 or 3 program and was Ferry's roommate - he did not coach with Ferry prior to DU!  Nash, still young, worked his way up to becoming HC at St Francis, NY.  Unfortunately, for him, he stalled out there.  Now, I have no idea how good or bad he would be if given a 2nd chance, however, you gotta like the genes, having played for his dad, a HS legend there and sorta reminds  of the Miller boys or even the "maniac" Hurley - all grew up with legendary HS coaches, their Dads.  DU has done worse.

You have to try to find a surer thing than that.
 

This is the best discussion thread that I have seen here in many a moon. Napa's comment concerning a search committee is a great idea. But don't call it a search committee. Call it a process improvement committee with metrics. After my many years at PNC I am pretty familiar with process improvement committees. We actually had process improvement committees overseeing other process improvement committees. In any case it's a dynamite idea. You are targeting an up and coming assistant at a successful D1 school. Guaranteed they have been immersed in statistical analysis of every facet of the game. It's a sign of the times. Every NBA team has a stats department. It takes brains to implement, though, to translate those stats into game preparation. Hell, you could even incorporate it into the recruiting process. Break down a recruits junior and senior year performance metrics to match your system (once we have one). I'm on a role here. Once this is in place when you interview that super assistant you just blow him away with the processes ALREADY in place. He's not starting from ground zero. And, you already have a select group to help the AD evaluate the candidates. I hope Father Hogan isn't still in the mix. My two cents for what it's worth.

ElDuque wrote:

Duq81, I think your analysis is missing a couple of things. Ron's DU record might not be good enough to keep a job in a power conference, certainly, but Ron would have had the support of his AD and greater resources at one of those schools. The latter certainly is an advantage, but without the former you can't be expected to be successful. Ron may have actually overachieved here, and if the shootings had never happened, his first class may have been a greater catalyst for success.

That's why as much as I find the Ferry era to be cringeworthy, I'm glad Dave Harper has his back. I think if Ferry has any chance to be successful, that's what it's going to take.

As for Hilltopper's thoughts on Nash, my answer is he's here now and it isn't helping much, as far as the eye can see. I don't really see a track record to make me think he's the guy, or even a candidate. Especially when you tell me his credentials are DII/DIII. When I think of a top assistant, I think of a guy who's at a winning program in a power conference.

Unlike some, I wouldn't rule out Andy Toole either. The guy is sharp and he can coach. And he's young.

But that's all moot. Ferry is not going anywhere. He won 17 games this year, so this isn't even the time to speculate. I know a lot of folks got carried away with 11-2 (weak non-con) and while I enjoyed it myself, I never looked past the mediocrity of our talent or the lack of an offensive or defensive plan. I figured there'd be drop off once A10 play started. Tarin Smith is a ball player. Lewis and James have the summer to improve. Let's hope Sanders or Robinson earns a starting job and the newcomers are better than Steele and Jackson, who look like role players to me.

Above all, let's hope Harper tells Ferry, look, I support you, now step it up a little bit.

PS I hope we beef up the non-con. Start with a cupcake or two (DI please) but fill the schedule with power conference teams. I think Pittsburgh fans would love to see Gonzaga, Xavier, WVU, etc., rather than Pushover CC.

. As for the schedule, outside of the locals, none of those teams you mentioned would ever make a trip here. We can play a game or two on the road, but the league wants all teams to schedule to get wins, and forbidd more than one buy game per team.
 

CLK wrote:

Texas may target Gill

http://www.burntorangenation.com/2016/4/7/11384016/lg-gill-duquesne-graduate-transfer-texas-longhorns


 

If this happens, I'll heat up the grill. Don't want anyone eating raw crow.
 

CLK wrote:

Texas may target Gill

http://www.burntorangenation.com/2016/4/7/11384016/lg-gill-duquesne-graduate-transfer-texas-longhorns


 

Keep in mind who the coach is, and where he came from. While I'd be shocked if Gill went there and lit it up, it's not rare for a guy who failed as a main cog, to be effective somewhere else as a spear carrier. A lot would depend on what Texas' roster looks like, and what they expect Gill to do. Maybe Shaka can force him to stay in the paint. He's not a bad rebounder after all. Maybe they're just looking for a big body to hit the boards. He can do that if he's willing to alter his game. If not, he'll be on the bench. Grad transfers are low risk because they usually take a spot that was either going to be left open, or go to a project of some kind.
 

He was the third best player on a team in the bottom 4 of a weAker conference. The best player on his team was third team all conference. There's absolutely no way he'll go there and do anything. Again like him as I kid from the time I spent with him.