I'm not responding to any more Ron Everhart comparisons. In fact, I'll start deleting them. If you want to compare the coaches, start with the records.

I'm neither ignorant nor a hater. I offered an opinion built on hard facts, specifically we have 1-1/2 returning starters and a few role players coming back, combined with five new players.

Very little proven A10 talent at this point. Thus, no proven depth.

As I stated, that might change this year, and as I also stated, I would happily admit to being wrong if that happened.

As for your name calling, we consider that being a troll, and we don't welcome trolls here.

ElDuque wrote:

I'm not responding to any more Ron Everhart comparisons. In fact, I'll start deleting them. If you want to compare the coaches, start with the records.

I'm neither ignorant nor a hater. I offered an opinion built on hard facts, specifically we have 1-1/2 returning starters and a few role players coming back, combined with five new players.

Very little proven A10 talent at this point. Thus, no proven depth.

As I stated, that might change this year, and as I also stated, I would happily admit to being wrong if that happened.

As for your name calling, we consider that being a troll, and we don't welcome trolls here.

You're the one constantly making comparisons of the two, Just in one guys favor. I've always maintained I have no loyalty to either coach. I came to Duquesne during some of Ron's most exciting years, and his teams and some of they're wins were the reason I really started getting into A10 basketball (I remember blowing out a ranked Temple team at the AJP, the  sold out red out game against Richmond on ESPNU). In fact, because of when I got to school, all of my fondest DU basketball memories were when he was coaching, not Ferry. So it's safe to say I like Ron, and I can honestly say more than Ferry, but like you said, I'm stating cold hard facts when I say that team (you said no depth for the last four years) sucked and had way less depth. And I'm not trying to be a "troll" I post a lot on this board and very rarely do I reference anything other than strictly basketball. If you want to kick out everyone that doesn't think exactly like you, go ahead Mr. Moderator.
 

I don't see any problem with comparing Ron and ferry as long as it is strictly basketball related. There's no denying that Ron was much more successful in terms of wins/losses than ferry has been so far. There's also no denying that ron's teams were stacked with some very good A-10 players and some also borderline D2 players (lewinson, chase, Martin, abele, Herrera, etc.). I do believe that ferry has put together more talented lineups from top to bottom, which is a testament to his recruiting abilities. However, it's getting close to put up or shut up time when it comes to the underlying issue, wins and losses.

As a new comer to this board I am sooooooooooooo sick of hearing about Ron.

You have to forget about it, its been so long and talking about him won't bring him back or not.
We need to focus on the CURRENT program and the FUTURE of the team 

Please please please stop talking about him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NapaDuke wrote:

currentstudent wrote:

As a new comer to this board I am sooooooooooooo sick of hearing about Ron.

You have to forget about it, its been so long and talking about him won't bring him back or not.
We need to focus on the CURRENT program and the FUTURE of the team 

Please please please stop talking about him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No comparison, but here is were Ferry is failing to coach this team. First, on defense, his dukes play passive defense and just sit back and let the opponent run it's offense with not pressure at all. Stats prove that.  No pressure, no turnovers, steals, or just hamper their offense somehow.  And that roll in the ball to half-court on us  is just the worst of passive defense, really.  Then on offense, he thinks he runs an "Up-Tempo game"?  Did you notice the Dukes (this past year) were a very big and slow team?  Neither guard ever beat any defense down the court on fast breaks. We played a very soft OOC schedule but our only 2 quality wins early on  were against RM and S.L. and both those teams slowed down our offense to were we played more half-court and Lewis player 38 minutes in both games, not because Ferry had a plan to, but the other coach forced the Duke to slow down? Now if Ferry were playing to his players, then you would have expected more of that style the rest of the season?  Just didn't happen?  Ferry gives too much away on defense and didn't play an offense that matched his size advantage.  No Ron comparison. If Ferry wants to win more next year,  then  make his players play pressure defense and use the height advantage in the paint.  Someone said that Gill was our leading re-bounder? Not so, he had one more rebound than Lewis per game,  but played an average of 30 plus minutes per game, vs Lewis playing 20 min. per game. Per min on the court, Lewis is by far the leading re-bounder. This team next year could win 20 plus games if coached correctly, but, just somehow, I don't see that happening.

Penn State was better than those 2 teams.
 

People these are just conversations not comparisons at least on my part, one is the current coach one is the last coach that's all to me. I just think sometimes it's relevant to bring up the past when talking about the present. I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of the year we are looking for a new coach of things don't improve. Can we then not talk about ferry either?

duq81 wrote:

NapaDuke wrote:

currentstudent wrote:

As a new comer to this board I am sooooooooooooo sick of hearing about Ron.

You have to forget about it, its been so long and talking about him won't bring him back or not.
We need to focus on the CURRENT program and the FUTURE of the team 

Please please please stop talking about him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No comparison, but here is were Ferry is failing to coach this team. First, on defense, his dukes play passive defense and just sit back and let the opponent run it's offense with not pressure at all. Stats prove that.  No pressure, no turnovers, steals, or just hamper their offense somehow.  And that roll in the ball to half-court on us  is just the worst of passive defense, really.  Then on offense, he thinks he runs an "Up-Tempo game"?  Did you notice the Dukes (this past year) were a very big and slow team?  Neither guard ever beat any defense down the court on fast breaks. We played a very soft OOC schedule but our only 2 quality wins early on  were against RM and S.L. and both those teams slowed down our offense to were we played more half-court and Lewis player 38 minutes in both games, not because Ferry had a plan to, but the other coach forced the Duke to slow down? Now if Ferry were playing to his players, then you would have expected more of that style the rest of the season?  Just didn't happen?  Ferry gives too much away on defense and didn't play an offense that matched his size advantage.  No Ron comparison. If Ferry wants to win more next year,  then  make his players play pressure defense and use the height advantage in the paint.  Someone said that Gill was our leading re-bounder? Not so, he had one more rebound than Lewis per game,  but played an average of 30 plus minutes per game, vs Lewis playing 20 min. per game. Per min on the court, Lewis is by far the leading re-bounder. This team next year could win 20 plus games if coached correctly, but, just somehow, I don't see that happening.

Penn State was better than those 2 teams.
 

I'd agree, Penn State ended the season I'd say as a better team, but at the point we played RM and St.L at St. L. in the season,  both teams were playing tough and very determined to beat us. Also,  both of their coaches in an attempt to out-coach us figured to slow-down the "Up-tempo" Dukes.  They dictated the pace, not Ferry, and we won from an unexpected consequence of the opponent  controlling the pace of the game. Even Ferry stated after the RM game that it was a "team win" which seemed to perplex him since he couldn't claim he planned this. It seemed odd to me to see a team with such a size advantage all season determined to carelessly push the action which often lead to the Dukes turning the ball over, or a fast careless shot by the Dukes with no one in position for a rebound only to lead to a fast-break score for the opponent, since most of our opponents were much faster than our bigger players. We could out-rebound most of the teams we faced, yet our "Up Tempo" style of chucking up fast 3's didn't allow our bigs to get into position quick enough to get the rebound?  Go figure?

If we have so much talent top to bottom, why do guys play 38 minutes a game?

It's a fair question if you believe that, isn't it?

Listen, I'm not going to take away the one season Duquesne fans can actually enjoy, the offseason. I think if you want to believe Ferry has recruited better players this year, then go for it. Of course, we've heard that for four years. Stephens, White, Powell, Gill, Castro, etc. My point is wait to see how it translates in November, and more importantly, in late January.

Right now, you have 1-1/2 returning starters, three sophomores and a junior who played sparsely, three freshmen, one transfer who sat out last year, and two transfers from losing programs. Compare that to teams in our own conference that are returning 3-4 starters and reserves who played important minutes all year, and who have NCAA or NIT experience.

So far the best argument I've seen for depth is that we have a bunch of new faces. That works in Kentucky, but here you have to creat chemistry, play defense, rebound, and take smart shots to win. And you need continuity to get that. That is the definition of "building a program."

ElDuque wrote:

If we have so much talent top to bottom, why do guys play 38 minutes a game?

It's a fair question if you believe that, isn't it?

Listen, I'm not going to take away the one season Duquesne fans can actually enjoy, the offseason. I think if you want to believe Ferry has recruited better players this year, then go for it. Of course, we've heard that for four years. Stephens, White, Powell, Gill, Castro, etc. My point is wait to see how it translates in November, and more importantly, in late January.

Right now, you have 1-1/2 returning starters, three sophomores and a junior who played sparsely, three freshmen, one transfer who sat out last year, and two transfers from losing programs. Compare that to teams in our own conference that are returning 3-4 starters and reserves who played important minutes all year, and who have NCAA or NIT experience.

So far the best argument I've seen for depth is that we have a bunch of new faces. That works in Kentucky, but here you have to creat chemistry, play defense, rebound, and take smart shots to win. And you need continuity to get that. That is the definition of "building a program."

I guess I am more excited for the program as a whole. I see next year as a transition year. I see us as a young but talented team that will only get better. I guess thats why I am excited about the pick ups. But I know its been a "transition year" for the past couple decades so I understand why many are still pissed. 

Also JF is still the coach 

Thank you ED and ditto!!!!!  Games aren't played on paper nor are they decided by someone's statistical averages. Without seeing one minute of play from either of the transfers or the freshman how can anyone state what this team is going to look like. Last year when the win streak was in full blossom and everyone was jumping up and down, I too was labeled a hater since my eyes told me just how many flaws where being glossed over by the competition. To think we don't want to see the university produce a winner is absolute nonsense. What we don't want is to be BS'ed to when we know what we are looking at.

Last edited by The Dome (4/29/2016 7:44 am)

ElDuque wrote:

Currentstudent, the feeling is frustration, not anger. Your outlook is exactly what it should be, optimistic. Unfortunately, IMHO, some more mature fans want to translate healthy optimism into a platform for disappointment. The future of this team, presuming they don't join the long list of transfers out, are Sanders, Smith and the three freshmen. James has upside that hasn't been tapped yet. Lewis is what we've seen for three years, a serviceable starter. Robinson has been improving even if he hasn't been rewarded with minutes. Jackson and Steele are role players. Maybe more by the time they're seniors, but both have to learn how to dribble, pass and play defense.

As I've been saying, and I thank CLK for seeing what I think are the same obvious facts, is that we don't have even a starting lineup with legit A10 experience, much less a deep bench. The illusion will continue as we soar through an early season assortment of bottom feeders and DII opponents and Ferry gives PT to one and all, but reality will set in when we start the conference schedule at Dayton, St. Bonaventure, St. Joe's or Davidson, and you see five guys getting 90% of the minutes and fighting for the opportunity to hoist threes.

Four years and $2.4M later, we ALL hope Ferry will figure this out. This year he'll have brought home $3M from your tuition money. He's talked a big game, and delivered chipmunk pellets.

People accuse me of hating, but I don't hate people. I do hate losing though. And when I analyze something, I base it on data as well as what my eyes see. I'm certainly no expert, but I've had the privilege to have interviewed and spoken with literally hundreds of coaches (Manning, Rice, Massimino, Catlett, Tom Young, John Bach, Dick Vitale), ADs, players (Chuck Cooper and Willie Somerset among them), reporters, NBA front office people (used to get free tickets all the time), and others who shaped the opinions I do have.

I'm not always right, of course, and I'm the first to admit that, but I'm confident that I'm seldom off the wall. And while I'm optimistic about next season and the new players, it's all based on perpetual hope, not on the hype into which some would buy.

Best post I have seen on here since joining. We all must remember we are on the same team. We all want to see this program win. I for sure know you have way ore knowledge than me with this program. Let's just hope something changes.