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Offline Woke up this morning and turned on ESPN and what do I see? I see a five minute lead story on that amazing Notre Dame/Louisville game that went five overtimes last night. Interviews with the players, the coaches, two minutes with Dickie V. etc. And I grew sad, very sad. Offline Coach Ferry will have to prove he is a recruiter after this season. He definetly needs to get better players. Let's see how he does with more time than he had to recruit than last spring. He also has to stress much better defense, much like Bobby Knight did at West Point. Knight did not have the greatest players at West Point, but he had them in the right position all during the game. And they won. Offline Tejas, unfortunately I'm afraid you've captured the full reality of the Duquesne BB program with your post above. I don't and never expect the Dukes to win the national championship. I expect 20 and 20+ win seasons with some consistency, occassional appearances in the NCAA tournament, maybe a win or 2 from time to time in the tournament, the Nit with a win or 2. I expect a program that is respected by fans and the media of D-1 college basketball. If we never had a tradition of success in D-1, which we pretty much have lost, then maybe I would have no such expectations. Sadly, we might have reached the point of no return. The combination of the current disarray in the program, the futility of the current team, the question marks concerning the ability of the coaching staff to right the ship and the impending loss of top teams and corresponding prestige of the A-10 appears at this point to have doomed the program to low level D-1 basketball - a level I and I suspect many others have no interest in. The Administration and AD's over the years have earned this result. While there may be more of a commitment now than over the past 20-30 years, given what is going on in Conference realignment, it appears to be to little too late to return Duquesne basketball to the respectability it once enjoyed. And don't ignore the rancor caused by the AD and Administration when they made the coaching change as factor in the unraveling of the program. Offline It's getting harder and harder to follow this team at all. True enough, the Dukes will never win an NCAA title, or be in the Final Four, Elite Eight or even Sweet Sixteen.....and I've accepted this probability for decades. However, with the almost cyclical diamantling/rebuilding of the program, it becomes almost impossible to get a "feel" for anything involving Duquesne. But at least it's been intriguing to an extent because of the strong league they belong to. In the future we won't even have that to hang our hats onto...............sad, very sad. So sad, that it's indisputable that Bobby Mo out of the NEC has overtaken Duquesne as the #2 team in the city. It's getting harder and harder to follow this team at all. True enough, the Dukes will never win an NCAA title, or be in the Final Four, Elite Eight or even Sweet Sixteen.....and I've accepted this probability for decades. However, with the almost cyclical diamantling/rebuilding of the program, it becomes almost impossible to get a "feel" for anything involving Duquesne. But at least it's been intriguing to an extent because of the strong league they belong to. In the future we won't even have that to hang our hats onto...............sad, very sad. So sad, that it's indisputable that Bobby Mo out of the NEC has overtaken Duquesne as the #2 team in the city. Please no "Not the Bobby Mo has taken over DU as the #2 team in the city" discussion again. Even though it is true, that brings the apologists out of walls to explain that RMU is not #2 in their little fantasy land. Please no, I can't take that again. Offline Duquesne was never in the mix in 1994. The NIT was the only chance we had, and that was due to the eastern bias the NIT had before the NCAA took it over. We were in the mix early in 1980, and again in 1981 though. Offline Duquesne was never in the mix in 1994. The NIT was the only chance we had, and that was due to the eastern bias the NIT had before the NCAA took it over. We were in the mix early in 1980, and again in 1981 though. Agreed, but we were playing well in 94 and could have gotten hot and had the potential to go deep into the A-10 Tourney at least, but as I said, we were on the fringes of discussion and we were mentioned by Vitale on the air. Offline Duquesne was never in the mix in 1994. The NIT was the only chance we had, and that was due to the eastern bias the NIT had before the NCAA took it over. We were in the mix early in 1980, and again in 1981 though. Agreed, but we were playing well in 94 and could have gotten hot and had the potential to go deep into the A-10 Tourney at least, but as I said, we were on the fringes of discussion and we were mentioned by Vitale on the air. You know, firing Carroll was a pretty popular decision, but looking back, it may have been the worst decision we made in the entire 40 year stretch. Up to that point, we weren't really good, but only occasionally had we been very bad. The Edgar era was the start of us becoming totally non-competitive. Carroll had many flaws, but he had been sabotaged by the move to the MCC. I really find it hard to believe, that had he been the coach, the Dukes would have been non-competitive with a team featuring Pipkins, Price, James, and Bosnic as upperclassmen. He would have had those 4 for 2 more years, and all but Pipkins for a third year. I have to believe that JC would have gone out and got whatever extra peices we needed, and that he would have won a fair amount of games with that crew. Edgar was a disaster, and he set the stage for the total collapse under DAP, and then Nee. Offline Duquesne was never in the mix in 1994. The NIT was the only chance we had, and that was due to the eastern bias the NIT had before the NCAA took it over. We were in the mix early in 1980, and again in 1981 though. Agreed, but we were playing well in 94 and could have gotten hot and had the potential to go deep into the A-10 Tourney at least, but as I said, we were on the fringes of discussion and we were mentioned by Vitale on the air. You know, firing Carroll was a pretty popular decision, but looking back, it may have been the worst decision we made in the entire 40 year stretch. Up to that point, we weren't really good, but only occasionally had we been very bad. The Edgar era was the start of us becoming totally non-competitive. Carroll had many flaws, but he had been sabotaged by the move to the MCC. I really find it hard to believe, that had he been the coach, the Dukes would have been non-competitive with a team featuring Pipkins, Price, James, and Bosnic as upperclassmen. He would have had those 4 for 2 more years, and all but Pipkins for a third year. I have to believe that JC would have gone out and got whatever extra peices we needed, and that he would have won a fair amount of games with that crew. Edgar was a disaster, and he set the stage for the total collapse under DAP, and then Nee. The Carroll firing was not popular with me, but if I am in the minority here then so be it. I think we were in the deluded denial stage. We were still less than two decades removed from Norm Nixon and many of the alums considered us a major power that had just had some recent bad luck. We figured that Carroll had lain the ground work and another up and coming coach could finish the job. JC was still the best recruiter we had here in the wilderness years and, to be fair, he left Edgar a solid ground work from which to build, as you pointed out above. Offline Agreed, but we were playing well in 94 and could have gotten hot and had the potential to go deep into the A-10 Tourney at least, but as I said, we were on the fringes of discussion and we were mentioned by Vitale on the air. You know, firing Carroll was a pretty popular decision, but looking back, it may have been the worst decision we made in the entire 40 year stretch. Up to that point, we weren't really good, but only occasionally had we been very bad. The Edgar era was the start of us becoming totally non-competitive. Carroll had many flaws, but he had been sabotaged by the move to the MCC. I really find it hard to believe, that had he been the coach, the Dukes would have been non-competitive with a team featuring Pipkins, Price, James, and Bosnic as upperclassmen. He would have had those 4 for 2 more years, and all but Pipkins for a third year. I have to believe that JC would have gone out and got whatever extra peices we needed, and that he would have won a fair amount of games with that crew. Edgar was a disaster, and he set the stage for the total collapse under DAP, and then Nee. The Carroll firing was not popular with me, but if I am in the minority here then so be it. I think we were in the deluded denial stage. We were still less than two decades removed from Norm Nixon and many of the alums considered us a major power that had just had some recent bad luck. We figured that Carroll had lain the ground work and another up and coming coach could finish the job. JC was still the best recruiter we had here in the wilderness years and, to be fair, he left Edgar a solid ground work from which to build, as you pointed out above. I'm not quite ready to give up yet. The main reason is the signing of Watkins. This has given me hope that indeed, this may be a staff that can land superior talent. The fact that they are in on a higher level of player than we normally get is encouraging, but of course, we need to land more. Another three star, or better this spring would add some optimism to this board. Next year will tell us a lot. Ferry will have mostly his guys, and though they will be young, we should be able to see signs by the middle of next year. As for Carroll, I think his personality rubbed some folks the wrong way. That said, Edgar was by all accounts, a nice guy, but really, at this point, most would take a disagreeable type, provided he could win without cheating. This could be a repeat of Carroll's first year. He put in his system, and didn't really care if the holdovers could play it or not. The team went 7-22, the worst record ever at the time. A year later, we were 13-15 (too bad we got stuck there for 3 years), and Carroll was A10 Coach Of The Year. Unfortunately, the MCC move killed his recruiting, and he never really recovered. As for the Norm Nixon era, people on this board vastly overrate it. That was a terrible era other than Nixon. We had one winning season while he was here, a lousy 14-11 his sophomore year. This after having 55 winning seasons in the 60 before he arrived on campus. The NCAA trip was fun, but it never happens if Keith Herron doesn't get injured in the semis, and by delaying Cinicola's firing a year, it might have done long term damage to the program. Last edited by duq81 (2/10/2013 9:29 pm) Offline It's hard to accept another year of losing, particularly when the Dukes are doing it so well, but I will be patient enough to support the new coach for a finite amount of time. I'm a big RE fan, but keep in mind, Ferry is now the Duquesne coach, and I will support that as a reality. I think that Ferry did an outstanding job on recruiting considering the short time period and moving up to a higher division talent level. The next class coming in should be pretty good with Watkins and Soko, so if he can get one or two more high impact players, things should be rolling. Both Severe and Notice appear to be very good gets, but as Castro reminds us, it's not done until the line is signed. I personally would like to see some more 6'8" signings; VCU, George Washington, etc. convinces me of that. Also, this BS about how he coaches is just that, BS. He's got his own style, accept it! If he rants, he gets criticized, stays calm and keeps his jacket on, he's criticized (Heinz-Healy would be livid, too). Once again, this foreum is becoming the old Voy board again with the same cast of characters. Guess it's about time to start a new message board to go along with a rebuilding year. Offline Prince, that's all well and good, but it won't matter when we're playing in some one-bid league! I've made it clear. We end up in some third-rate, one-bid conference then I am done with Duquesne basketball and this University for good! I am having my name taken off all mailing lists and my parents' money will be going to the American Cancer Society or MD Anderson Cancer Center here in Houston. Offline Tejas - please give your money to some other organization...really...please. Not only are we all very tired of hearing you use "your parents' money" as a leverage point for your interest in our program, but it's downright disgusting to state that your choice is between Duquesne Athletics or "the American Cancer Society or MD Anderson Cancer Center here in Houston". Really...you're going to make that proposition? Offline Welcome to Ferryland, where dreams can come true if you wish hard enough. Offline Prince, if Ferry can rip his student athletes in public, then he can take a little heat on a message board. I am expessing my opinion based on my observations on his game game day coaching. If you don't like it don't read it, or deal with it. Offline Tejas - please give your money to some other organization...really...please. Not only are we all very tired of hearing you use "your parents' money" as a leverage point for your interest in our program, but it's downright disgusting to state that your choice is between Duquesne Athletics or "the American Cancer Society or MD Anderson Cancer Center here in Houston". Really...you're going to make that proposition? Offline Prince, if Ferry can rip his student athletes in public, then he can take a little heat on a message board. I am expessing my opinion based on my observations on his game game day coaching. If you don't like it don't read it, or deal with it. CLK, I know your a true Duquesne fan and I can feel your pain. I especially appreciate the time and effort you put in as far as recruiting information, that is the real reason for visiting this board. You and I just differ on Ferry as a coach. When TJ McConnell left RE hanging, was your initial reaction "we can work through this" or was it "here we go again with the rebuilding BS". Admittedly, you didn't have a whole lot of time to think about it due to the bungled RE firing, but that really can't be laid on Ferry or the remaining players. He came in after that mess, said he'll move the program to a higher level, and demanded a salary to do so (I know, the ticket prices and parking prices have risen to pay the salary, but I still attend every home game as well as the Robert Morris fiasco). It's just too soon to judge the new coach. When he arrived, I know he got criticism for not promising pie in the sky, but I'm pretty sure he knew what he had to work with (again, no offence to our present players, but it is what it is). Get pissed off at players such as Marhold (Ferry admittedly has), but honestly, this team is overmatched just about everytime they take the floor. A 6' 6" center? Be real. And no better options (stone hands and pogo sticks are not viable options)? From what I have observed, the team plays hard, but the A-10 talent as well as others are kicking their butts. Maybe they should have beaten teams like Robert Morris, but the game I watched was a mismatch. Ferry will be judged on how well he recruits, period. He has a lot of contributing head coach bench help (unlike Ron E.), so coaching decisions are not quite as important as talent. You can't continually outcoach with inferior talent. I even got the message that the team is expected to be in the gym putting the work in. As soon as they start hitting free throws, I'll know they are moving forward. The A-10 has certainly evolved, and hopefully will continue to do so as long as the Catholic 7 problems don't spill over, which means recruiting talent (hopefully big), is going to be very important. I like what Ferry has done so far as recruiting, hopefully he attracts some more top notch kids. Enough of my rant, hopefully you too will not implode from frustration. Offline Prince, if Ferry can rip his student athletes in public, then he can take a little heat on a message board. I am expessing my opinion based on my observations on his game game day coaching. If you don't like it don't read it, or deal with it. CLK, I know your a true Duquesne fan and I can feel your pain. I especially appreciate the time and effort you put in as far as recruiting information, that is the real reason for visiting this board. You and I just differ on Ferry as a coach. When TJ McConnell left RE hanging, was your initial reaction "we can work through this" or was it "here we go again with the rebuilding BS". Admittedly, you didn't have a whole lot of time to think about it due to the bungled RE firing, but that really can't be laid on Ferry or the remaining players. He came in after that mess, said he'll move the program to a higher level, and demanded a salary to do so (I know, the ticket prices and parking prices have risen to pay the salary, but I still attend every home game as well as the Robert Morris fiasco). It's just too soon to judge the new coach. When he arrived, I know he got criticism for not promising pie in the sky, but I'm pretty sure he knew what he had to work with (again, no offence to our present players, but it is what it is). Get pissed off at players such as Marhold (Ferry admittedly has), but honestly, this team is overmatched just about everytime they take the floor. A 6' 6" center? Be real. And no better options (stone hands and pogo sticks are not viable options)? From what I have observed, the team plays hard, but the A-10 talent as well as others are kicking their butts. Maybe they should have beaten teams like Robert Morris, but the game I watched was a mismatch. Ferry will be judged on how well he recruits, period. He has a lot of contributing head coach bench help (unlike Ron E.), so coaching decisions are not quite as important as talent. You can't continually outcoach with inferior talent. I even got the message that the team is expected to be in the gym putting the work in. As soon as they start hitting free throws, I'll know they are moving forward. The A-10 has certainly evolved, and hopefully will continue to do so as long as the Catholic 7 problems don't spill over, which means recruiting talent (hopefully big), is going to be very important. I like what Ferry has done so far as recruiting, hopefully he attracts some more top notch kids. Enough of my rant, hopefully you too will not implode from frustration. Offline CLK and all the loyal posters,
I'm really depresed this morning (not just over Xavier game)
I am a realistic sports fan, I wrote long ago on the Voy forum the following: "Let's be realistic.
Duquesene is NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER going to win an NCAA crown
They will NEVER make a final four.
They will NEVER make an elite 8!
I was ripped for pessimism, but those are just the facts. I don't know about you, but last night's ND/Lousiville game is something I hope for. I would just like to be in the conversation, on the radar, and playing important/meaningful basketball come February let alone March. We are nowhere close and we will not be anywhere close for at least three years and by that time, it won't matter.
Since the 3rd month of Jimmy Carter's first year in office, we have experienced the fun and excitement of being in the conversation exactly THREE TIMES! 36 seasons have come and gone and we have mattered exactly three times ('94, '09,'11). That's it! Other than those three years we never had a prayer of being talked about in bracketology or be a featured national game, or leading off "Sportscenter," or even having the dimmest hope come Selection Sunday.
I don't know about you guys, but I am not greedy, I know we will never be elite, I just want get the chance to sit down t the table, deal the cards, ante up and see what happens. I remember the finish of the 94 season, and at Damon's we had on a West Virginia/Temple game and I actually heard Dick Vitale mention us! Dickie Vee said the words Duquesne, complimenting their play with "Watch out for Duquesene BABEE, they've won four out of five and are looking good." I felt we had finally arrived. Boy was I wrong.
It's clear we are going to suck for the next three seasons! By the time we don't suck, if that happens and I strongly doubt it, it won't matter. The A-10 will be stripped of its top teams and will be a one bid league. We're not going to be leading Sportscenter with our thrilling win over Fordham on our way to our league's fifteenth seed, or worse, our titanic battle with Holy Cross or Manhattan for the MAAC championship.
Meaningful basketball in February, let alone March. Is that too much to ask for? Is that too much to ask for from a university whom I have given thousands of dollars to over the years (I belonged to the Dukes Court when I was bartending my way through my Masters).
oh damn it, Amodio, Dougherty, your clueless PR people who can't grasp the fact that a top athletic program is a boon for admissions and (yes, money) your bloated college buracracy, who can't even answer a simple question like "Why can't I get a DU tee shirt in Dick's?" (a question I have been asking for twenty years!).
"And leading off Sportcenter this morning, an exciting battle in the Steel City between #24 ranked Duquesne and.................................."
That's all I have ever asked for, really it is! And I am never going to see it!
This morning sucks!
Vicimus Atlanticum decem
Re: I'm really depresed this morning (not just over Xavier game)
Re: I'm really depresed this morning (not just over Xavier game)
Re: I'm really depresed this morning (not just over Xavier game)
Re: I'm really depresed this morning (not just over Xavier game)
xlopjoe wrote:
I will venture to say that if they go 0-16 or 1-15, DU basketball will have reached a new low point in its history.
And I have accepted for a long time that this team can't compete for a Sweet 16 berth. Going to the tournament is the only thing that this program can ever hope to aspire to.
I imagine after the A10 splits apart next year, that except for perhaps Pitt game.....Consol Center games for conference play will never be done again.
But look at the great news, we will be able to host at the Consol Center for years to come. That is the real measure of success for this program. Our hosting abilities.
Re: I'm really depresed this morning (not just over Xavier game)
Re: I'm really depresed this morning (not just over Xavier game)
duq81 wrote:
Vicimus Atlanticum decem •Thread Starter
Re: I'm really depresed this morning (not just over Xavier game)
Tejas_Duke wrote:
duq81 wrote:
Re: I'm really depresed this morning (not just over Xavier game)
duq81 wrote:
Tejas_Duke wrote:
duq81 wrote:
After the U-Mass game, I guess Carroll's fate was sealed, so the idiot AD and the drunken, falling asleep at meetings Spiritan dropped the hammer on him. Funny, I can't help but see parallels to the current situation. Coach appears stalled at a certain level of mediocrity so let's get rid of him. Of course, Pipkens, Price and Bosnic didn't transfer out before they fired John.
This is looking more and more like a total disaster.
Vicimus Atlanticum decem •Thread Starter
Re: I'm really depresed this morning (not just over Xavier game)
Tejas_Duke wrote:
duq81 wrote:
Tejas_Duke wrote:
After the U-Mass game, I guess Carroll's fate was sealed, so the idiot AD and the drunken, falling asleep at meetings Spiritan dropped the hammer on him. Funny, I can't help but see parallels to the current situation. Coach appears stalled at a certain level of mediocrity so let's get rid of him. Of course, Pipkens, Price and Bosnic didn't transfer out before they fired John.
This is looking more and more like a total disaster.
Re: I'm really depresed this morning (not just over Xavier game)
Re: I'm really depresed this morning (not just over Xavier game)
I have beaten my head against the wall for over three decades to see Big Dance level basketball, and I am tired of the people in charge here not getting this done!
Vicimus Atlanticum decem •Thread Starter
Re: I'm really depresed this morning (not just over Xavier game)
Cancer vs. basketball? Really? Grow up.
Duquesne athletics will go on without you, so will Jim Ferry, so will everyone else.
Re: I'm really depresed this morning (not just over Xavier game)
Re: I'm really depresed this morning (not just over Xavier game)
I do agree with you about recruiting, and as I said Ferry will need recruit exceptionally well if he will live up to the billing as a next level coach. I don't see him taking average talent and coaching them up.
Re: I'm really depresed this morning (not just over Xavier game)
FanODukes wrote:
Cancer vs. basketball? Really? Grow up.
Duquesne athletics will go on without you, so will Jim Ferry, so will everyone else.
Agreed on your point, I have mentioned this way too much and this will be the last mentiont in any forum. And just so you know I alreadt make regular annual contributions to the above said charities, so this is not just a "basketball vs. cancer" situation, which would sound absurd.
I am not the first die-hard DU hoops fan to approach the end of their tether as far as this program. There's at least ten I could think of from the old board. That is my line in the sand. I am contributing nothing to a team playing in a garbage conference, nor am I contributing to a university who fails to see the importance of nationally recognized men's basketball program. As my first post indicates, I know we will never be Kansas or Duke, but we have the ablity and the resources to be Xavier or Gonzaga.
Vicimus Atlanticum decem •Thread Starter
Re: I'm really depresed this morning (not just over Xavier game)
CLK wrote:
I do agree with you about recruiting, and as I said Ferry will need recruit exceptionally well if he will live up to the billing as a next level coach. I don't see him taking average talent and coaching them up.
Re: I'm really depresed this morning (not just over Xavier game)
PrinceOf Pilsner wrote:
CLK wrote:
I do agree with you about recruiting, and as I said Ferry will need recruit exceptionally well if he will live up to the billing as a next level coach. I don't see him taking average talent and coaching them up.
Thanks, there are far too few Duquesne fans left to get upset over disagreements. We both want to see the Dukes win. At the risk of drawing fire from some folks I will tell you my first reaction to the firing of ron was: "What has that Dip-Sh** AD done"? I felt like Ron was in a good position to reload, and dispite people calling his recruiting class mythical it was not. I can tell you that the kids in this article with the exception Johnson were sealed and Johnson was a very strong lean.
My fear at the time was exactly what happened, that we would once again become the doormat of the league, and given horrible way his firing was handled and all the adverse publicity the rebuilding job was going to be protracted. My initial reaction to the hiring of Ferry was mixed. I hoped he was the upgrade touted by the AD, but when I looked at his record I had to question why Ron was not given the time to succed at DU that Ferry had at LIU. It was not like Ron was a complete and total failure. Hell I though he should have been given the Lazarus Award (mythical award I made up for raising the dead) for what he accomplished at Duquesne.
Now I understand that Ron is no longer the coach, and as a fan we need to support Ferry. However, he is not above criticism, espectionally when he has no compunction about thowing his players under the bus, and then last week giving Ron the backhand over the Jerry Jones incident. My criticism does not mean I do not want him to be successful, I just do not see him as an upgrade over Ron with what I see in his coaching skills. Just my opinion. You are correct he will be judged on how well he recruits. I hope he can land some combination of a Severe, Notice, and or a Mikyle McIntosh (maybe add a Jordan Robinson) as these are the type of recruiting battles he needs to win. If he has to go to plan B level I do not see much of a move for us next year which makes recruiting for the next year even more difficult. End of rant.
Re: I'm really depresed this morning (not just over Xavier game)
I learn so much reading this board, we all have some strong opinions but even those who swear they don't care anymore, we know you still do. Not to beat an old story to death but when I was a jr high kid listening to on radio and watching the Dukes at the brand new Civic Arena I had little idea how good they were. I still remember in the early 70's when a Pgh sports writer was aghast that the Dukes had fallen to just the top 50 in the country.
i hope Coach Ferry can rebuild and miss the great wins RE gave us, I guess I will be a fan forever and I am proud of that. Lets go Dukes!
A diehard fan since 1961