He looks Chris Mullen quick to me.

Duques102 wrote:

Dukes2012 wrote:

CLK wrote:

Same old Debbie Downers.  The thing to remember is that one of the biggest strengths of Coach D is his ability to coach kids up.  He looks at the raw materials, makes his own measurements and knows how to make the pieces fit.  Looking at this kid I would say he has a better skill set going in to DU than Darius Lewis had after 4 years under Ferry.  

I seriously do not understand some people on this board. This kid has not even put on a Duquesne jersey yet, and already some of these cranks are burying him. Lets compare him to powell since they are the same size and same position.  Powell has a clear advantage in explosiveness and athleticism, but other than that Kratholm appears to be better in every other aspect of the game... defense, shooting, rebounding, passing, dribbling.  
 

You guys make great points. It makes a lot of sense to compare him to Lewis and Powell because he will be playing in similar positions.

I agree with CLK, this kid is obviously quicker, more skilled, and has better hands and finishing ability than d lew. That's not a know on Lewis, just the truth. The only thing d lew had on this kid is 2 inches.

In regards to Powell, 2012 your right the new guy is not as athletically explosive, and I can't say I have seen us recruiting or offering anyone else as athletically explosive as Powell either (besides maybe IMike), but very few guys out there are. The reason a guy with that elite athleticism falls to a school like Duquesne is because there are severe limitations to other aspects of his game. For Powell, that was a consistent defensive motor. Passing and ball handling skills, and a consistent jumper from 15 feet and in. Powell didn't really have any of that. Give me the guy who is fundamentally sound.

Dambrot wants to play intelligent team basketball with an emphasis on defense. CLK also mentioned Dambrot is known for coaching guys up and developing them which we know is true. If this kid can play defense, is fundamentally sound, and is willing to buy into whatever role the staff has in mind for him, he can absolutely be a successful recruit.

Not every player on great teams is a star. You need guys who know and can execute their roles in a way that is most beneficial to the team as a whole, and for some players, that means being a rotational depth guy.

That being said, athleticism isn't everything. How athletic are Nowitzki or Porzingis? They are not, but are excellent technichians of the game and play team, winning basketball. Tim Duncan, "the big fundamental", was never confused to be a freak athlete. It's not always all about the sizzle, and besides athleticism for Powell, he looks like a better player coming in than each of those guys.

You'll hear me complain if we are going after multiple undersized guys. But give me size, technical ability, and fundamental skill sets and I think that is the type of dough that Dambrot can mold into success.

See San Antonio Spurs

Porzingis is a very good athlete, especially for his size.
My one problem is that the folks hyping our new guys are the same ones to call the guys who left, or got releases, bums who couldn't play, despite some of them being 2.5-3 star players.

81, I don't know if you are talking about me or not, but I certainly recognize that we are losing a great player in Mike, a solid big body in sanders, and at least two really good A10 recruits in wheeler and walker.  That said, I don't think the rest of the departures are anything to be concerned about.  As far as overrating the current recruits, I am of the opinion that Eric Williams was criminally underrecruited given his size, athleticism, and resume. He was the best player on a state title team that included a highly recruited D1 player.  I also like a lot of what I have seen from Kratholm, and think he will be a solid rotation player for four years.  Not every player can be on the all A-10 team or even a pro prospect.  I really hope we land Verhoeven, who is on a visit today.  He is a three-star (per Scout) with offers from LMU and Fresno State. 

Last edited by Dukes2012 (4/17/2017 12:34 pm)

BTW, I always expect to lose the entire incoming class when a coaching change is made so I think that was a given.

It is interesting and entertaining reading on this board. But one thing everyone must realize is that these are the opinions of fans. Some are going to be positive, like the ones that predicted twenty win seasons last season after losing their top players and watching highlights of a potential recruits and thinking they are the next MJ. Others are going to be realistic and give their assessment wether accurate or not. The next group will be negative, because they have experienced the trials and tribulations of the Duquesne basketball program over the past thirty five years. The last group I have witnessed on this board are the ones that think they are the basketball authorities. Irregardless let them have their opinions from the positive Petes to the negative Nancy's and everything in between. All we know at this point is we have a new coach that is a proven winner for his level of competition. The coach has stated that he likes to have four year players. Which translates to build with younger players that fit his system and are eager to learn how his teams play. (My kind of coach) For me this is exciting time for the Dukes because the new coach is coming in at a time when the a10 is down a bit and there are a lot of new coaches for the usual top teams in the league and our main out of conference and local rival is in dismay. The playing field is as level as I have ever seen it for the new coach. So I hope he gets the players he covets and he can be as successful as he was at Akron. That being said, who have we actually signed to date ? This is not the time to get commits, but is actually the signing period. Not that I have a preference in whom he signs, just trying to get a feel for next seasons roster as well as the following year with his transfers.

currentstudent wrote:

duq81 wrote:

Duques102 wrote:

You guys make great points. It makes a lot of sense to compare him to Lewis and Powell because he will be playing in similar positions.

I agree with CLK, this kid is obviously quicker, more skilled, and has better hands and finishing ability than d lew. That's not a know on Lewis, just the truth. The only thing d lew had on this kid is 2 inches.

In regards to Powell, 2012 your right the new guy is not as athletically explosive, and I can't say I have seen us recruiting or offering anyone else as athletically explosive as Powell either (besides maybe IMike), but very few guys out there are. The reason a guy with that elite athleticism falls to a school like Duquesne is because there are severe limitations to other aspects of his game. For Powell, that was a consistent defensive motor. Passing and ball handling skills, and a consistent jumper from 15 feet and in. Powell didn't really have any of that. Give me the guy who is fundamentally sound.

Dambrot wants to play intelligent team basketball with an emphasis on defense. CLK also mentioned Dambrot is known for coaching guys up and developing them which we know is true. If this kid can play defense, is fundamentally sound, and is willing to buy into whatever role the staff has in mind for him, he can absolutely be a successful recruit.

Not every player on great teams is a star. You need guys who know and can execute their roles in a way that is most beneficial to the team as a whole, and for some players, that means being a rotational depth guy.

That being said, athleticism isn't everything. How athletic are Nowitzki or Porzingis? They are not, but are excellent technichians of the game and play team, winning basketball. Tim Duncan, "the big fundamental", was never confused to be a freak athlete. It's not always all about the sizzle, and besides athleticism for Powell, he looks like a better player coming in than each of those guys.

You'll hear me complain if we are going after multiple undersized guys. But give me size, technical ability, and fundamental skill sets and I think that is the type of dough that Dambrot can mold into success.

See San Antonio Spurs

Porzingis is a very good athlete, especially for his size.
My one problem is that the folks hyping our new guys are the same ones to call the guys who left, or got releases, bums who couldn't play, despite some of them being 2.5-3 star players.

Agreed. We need to be careful about over hyping incoming players. I still could care less about any big that left or committed from us. I do hate we lost our guards though. 

This is a tough time a year because all I want to do is see how the team performs....but we have months until we even get a hint. 

Idk if you guys are referring to me either in regards to over "hyping" guys (you use that word a lot). I was pointing out that he looks to be advanced compared to other average guys we brought in in the past. I said that he will likely be a rotational depth guy, which isn't a negative thing. I used the comparison of unathletic successful pro players to point out you don't have to be super athletic to be a good player, not comparing this guy to any of them.

I still hold the belief like others, that besides Isiaha Mike everyone else we lost was replaceable. That doesn't mean any of the other guys that left were bums.

CLK wrote:

I personally do no care if the negative nabobs or the self proclaim recruiting experts think I am hyping players.  I am excited about what this coach is doing and the kids he is bringing in to the program.  He is building a program from scratch, has a vision of what he wants to build, and knows how he wants the pieces to fit.  

I look at the list of players he has recruited and I am impressed. 
2* PF - Marko Krivacevi6-9 JUCO 
3* SG  - Craig Randall 6-4 Transfer 
3* PG - Tavian Dunn -Martin 5-8 Transfer
2* C  - Michael Hughes 6-9 Transfer
2* PF/C - Nicholas Kratholm 6-8 
2* SF - Eric Williams 6-6 

If we add Tydus and Patton or the transfer from Miami I will be very happy.  Does that me I expect instant success, absolutely not, but I believe the future is very bright.  This from a guy who was ready to walk away in February.   

CLK, I think it is important to note here that Ferry certainly brought in some talented recruits during his tenure.  I have never had an issue with Ferry's recruiting.  The issues were lack of development for many players and lack of coaching.  It's not like Coach D's recruits will be significantly better on paper than Ferry's were, at least not in the first few years.  But the thing that gets me excited, and obviously numerous others on this board, is that these kids will receive great coaching and will be developed by a coach with a very solid record.  I look at these recruits as what they are and what they can be under Coach D.

CLK wrote:

Dukes2012 wrote:

CLK wrote:

I personally do no care if the negative nabobs or the self proclaim recruiting experts think I am hyping players.  I am excited about what this coach is doing and the kids he is bringing in to the program.  He is building a program from scratch, has a vision of what he wants to build, and knows how he wants the pieces to fit.  

I look at the list of players he has recruited and I am impressed. 
2* PF - Marko Krivacevi6-9 JUCO 
3* SG  - Craig Randall 6-4 Transfer 
3* PG - Tavian Dunn -Martin 5-8 Transfer
2* C  - Michael Hughes 6-9 Transfer
2* PF/C - Nicholas Kratholm 6-8 
2* SF - Eric Williams 6-6 

If we add Tydus and Patton or the transfer from Miami I will be very happy.  Does that me I expect instant success, absolutely not, but I believe the future is very bright.  This from a guy who was ready to walk away in February.   

CLK, I think it is important to note here that Ferry certainly brought in some talented recruits during his tenure.  I have never had an issue with Ferry's recruiting.  The issues were lack of development for many players and lack of coaching.  It's not like Coach D's recruits will be significantly better on paper than Ferry's were, at least not in the first few years.  But the thing that gets me excited, and obviously numerous others on this board, is that these kids will receive great coaching and will be developed by a coach with a very solid record.  I look at these recruits as what they are and what they can be under Coach D.

I agree my friend, we finally have a coach who can teach, motivate and coach players. However,  it is not like this first  class are a bunch of slouts, or not A10 players as somebody alluded to in his post.  Clearly Coach D is building for the future.  Three of his recruits are transfers who I believe have the ability to be impact players from day one in 2018 - 2019.  The other three all look to have the basic skills necessary for their positions.  They may or may not be impact players, but to discount them as not being A10 caliber players is absurd at this point.  Let's revisit these players next March and then make a determination if they fit or don't fit.     

*** Duques102 check the recruiting section****
 

rittersdiner wrote:

HookShot wrote:

This is not a knock on Ritters who has every right to post, but someone compared him to Waldorf and Statler in the balcony. I think of him as Oscar the Grouch, usually with a complaint but hopefully with a good heart. I think Ritters likes to see what kind of rise he gets. I am thrilled with Dambrot's vision. We have more size now. He will play two guards instead of three tiny ones. Ritters, enjoy the new song. It ain't the same as the old song!!!

I look more like Waldorf. I don't post to get a rise. My opinions are simply based on watching more than 30 mostly awful seasons since I graduated. People like to be optimistic, and I would never criticize that. However, I am at the point in life that I want a coach to show me he can coach and recruit. Ferry could do neither. Dambrot? Who knows? Show me before I spread accolades. Finish above .500 next year and be a tournament team in three and I will praise this coach.

And maybe reach Kermit status.

So if he finished below .500 he is not a good coach??  I am new here...how many kids did he lose??  At what point in the recruiting process was he hired??

2017-18 is a "hall pass" year.  If you want to build unrealistic expectations then a coach will go the JUCO route to get older kids to be able to meet your expectations.  That is NOT how Dambrot will build a team.  They may lose a lot next year but they will compete and get better.

One thing you should be aware of...kids will not play at all if they do not compete in practice and play defense.  There were complaints at Akron that high ceiling kids did not get any minutes and he should "let them work through their mistakes".  That is NOT Dambrot. Kids will put forth effort in practice and at the defensive end or not get on the floor.  Playing time...it is how he gets commitment.  I suspect 2017-2018 will be a rough year while the kids learn his system and expectations and while you wait for transfers to be available.   There is no short cut. 

I too hold no expectations for next year. I think with some of the transfers brought in and the potential guys who could be brought in next year with Dambrot given a full recruiting season we could start seeing serious positive momentum in years two and three, that's all I expect.

The results next year are not what is most important. I would like to see the team improve throughout the season, as well as seeing guys develop over the course of the year. I think a successful season would be seeing an identity and style of play take place for Dambrot and his program. That was a big issue many of us had with Ferry. There was no identity. What was Jim Ferry basketball besides free flowing offense and every guy on offense having the green light to shoot from anywhere at anytime, it was so dysfunctional.

I want to see the vision begin to form, more good players brought in, and improvement down the stretch (we are used to collapse down the stretch). With just the players we have now year two will feature a team that has a lot of size and a very talented back court. A highly talented wing player may be the top priority next year as that is where we will have the least depth in two years based on what we have right now.

I can't wait to see what Dambrot can do with a full recruiting period because I feel he has done a great job with extremely limited time and coming late to the party trying to recruit guys.

That being said I wouldn't be surprised to see next years team exceed our expectations slightly with Dambrot at the helm. The man is an incredible basketball coach and sometimes, if the execution is there, you can win games with less talent.

The discussion on this board makes me think the Duquesne Basketball Program is going no where fast.

I couldn't feel more positive about the program than I do at this minute! Looking forward to seeing the program get where it could and should have been for the last 40 years!

Coach D develops players and adapts to the players he has...defensive intensity and a smart coach can elevate a team that has less talent.  I'm optimistic about this team.  We'll be better than 10-22.  Much better.