I watched it last night, and I got to say, I actually gained some respect for Cal after watching it.  He's certainly ruffled a lot of feathers in college basketball, but he seems sincere and he's been very innovative in his approach.  Plus, I always have a soft spot for Western PA guys.

I also kind of bought his argument about employment versus education.  He made the point that the main reason you go to college is to secure employment afterwards. 

Last edited by Dukes2012 (4/18/2017 10:04 am)

ElDuque wrote:

How much employment beyond the NBA are his one-and-done guys at Kentucky?

Kentucky's the perfect set-up for him. All those folks care about is winning. If he can get players into school for a year (not the hardest thing to do at a state school), he doesn't have to worry about their academics. Not that he did at UMass or Memphis, or there wouldn't be vacated NCAAs at both schools.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think the one and done system is terrible.  They should either let kids go straight from high school or make them stay at least two years, kind of like the system that baseball uses.  That way, kids have to take school seriously.  As far as employment, most of the one and done players from Kentucky are going in the first round, and I don't know if you've seen the NBA contracts lately, but that is most likely the only employment these guys will ever need.  Speaking of, TJ is about to be handsomely rewarded with probably $20 or so million.
 

ElDuque wrote:

How much employment beyond the NBA are his one-and-done guys at Kentucky?

Kentucky's the perfect set-up for him. All those folks care about is winning. If he can get players into school for a year (not the hardest thing to do at a state school), he doesn't have to worry about their academics. Not that he did at UMass or Memphis, or there wouldn't be vacated NCAAs at both schools.

 

 That's true and the academics are truly a joke with the one and done guys.  They only need to stay eligible until the second semester begins in January, then they can just blow off all academic endeavors.  They don't have to make grades in the second semester of the freshman year; so they are effectively done with school after registering for classes in the second semester.  It is a distinct advantage over guys that at least have to remain eligible beyond one semester.  They are in no way living the life of a college student, or even a college athlete at that point.  They are simply playing basketball and wearing the uniform of a university.  They don't belong on a college campus and should play professionally after high school.

You missed the point.  It has zero to do with jealousy or the fact that some coaches can attract that type of talent.  My concern is that it creates an atmosphere that should not exist in college athletics.  Keep in mind that the rule was really a function of an NBA decision to discontinue taking guys straight out of High School.  The rule was a stopgap effort which should be reworked, since it makes a mockery of the NCAA fantasy of a "student athlete".
Speaking of Gonzaga Mark Few made a point to mention that his players are not only great players but great people and students!  They are getting better players but still not following the one and done model.

Duques102 wrote:

levon1975 wrote:

You missed the point. It has zero to do with jealousy or the fact that some coaches can attract that type of talent. My concern is that it creates an atmosphere that should not exist in college athletics. Keep in mind that the rule was really a function of an NBA decision to discontinue taking guys straight out of High School. The rule was a stopgap effort which should be reworked, since it makes a mockery of the NCAA fantasy of a "student athlete".
Speaking of Gonzaga Mark Few made a point to mention that his players are not only great players but great people and students! They are getting better players but still not following the one and done model.

You missed my point Levon. I said overall that I agree with everything you said. Not specifically saying your jealous, we are in the position of the schools that don't get those guys, that's all.

It does further the mockery of the concept of "student athletes" but that could be said about most aspects of major college sports nowadays. The concept of "student athlete" goes hand in hand with "amateur sports" and how true is that anymore with what these schools generate and what the NCAA makes off march madness? The "students" that make deep runs in the tournament are held out of class for a month at a time. All these guys are on the road so much they may attend half of the classes for a course during a semester. While I agree the concept is messed up and in no way what college sports were intended to be, it just is the way the market is now with college athletics. That's all I was saying.

It's just like the fact that Rene Castro will now be going to his third college, im sure situations like that were never intended when transfer rules were created. It's basically become a free agent market.

The concept of student athletes has been a joke since the rise of college sports back in the 1880s. It was actually dirtier then if you can believe that.

Firstly - think the NBA and not the colleges should be preparing these players at age 18-19 -  The NBDL should be expanded so that EACH team has a "developmental squad" -- The league should play under standards similar to the NBA itself (i.e. 82 game season - road trips -- six months etc)  NOT going to happen because the NBA is content to let the colleges do the work for them.  Each baseball team has maybe 5 minor league teams, NHL might have 2 or so --  Football at least requires THREE years after high school graduation.

If nothing else I respect Coach Cal in that he is at least upfront and honest about the process.

At one point Duke refused to raise a championship banner as certain members of the team did not get their degrees -  I'm sure the requirements at Duke are MUCH more stringent than at Kentucky --  Now it is at the point where nearly half (if not more) of Duke's players become "Oners and Doners" --  Would be interesting to take a random sample each year of the hoopers acceptance packages (transcripts, SAT's, Essays etc) and Compare them to a random sample of the Others accepted - For example if one recruiting class has 2 African Americans and 2 Whites - Pull a Random Sample of 20 African Americans and 20 Whites --  

Duke would probably need an EXCELLENT Workmen's Compensation policy for all the people who "fell off their chairs laughing" at some of the admission packages -  Probably just looked at the line "special requirements/accomplishments and noted Averaged 28 points 18 Rebounds in High School - Parade/Mc Donalds All-American Team.  Know some of the hoopers might really be qualified for the school - but over time - am pretty sure the results could be  embarassing to the school.  You ask yourself "Can he do the work needed to stay there?" Then you tell yourself - Not a problem -- First semester will be some of those lowest level introductory courses - Second semester a little more on - but of course in March when they "enter the draft" they probably withdraw from school as well to begin preparation for the draft.

And you see some of the names on the banners for NCAA championships - and you wonder how many were really colleges etc and how many of them were won by "the best set of hired guns" in that given year.

NOT to rag on Duke specifically  as other schools are getting/taking the "oneers' and doners" but it is that their normal academic requirements are a lot more difficult than a Kansas, a Kentucky or other schools.

 

SkepticAl wrote:

Firstly - think the NBA and not the colleges should be preparing these players at age 18-19 -  The NBDL should be expanded so that EACH team has a "developmental squad" -- The league should play under standards similar to the NBA itself (i.e. 82 game season - road trips -- six months etc)  NOT going to happen because the NBA is content to let the colleges do the work for them.  Each baseball team has maybe 5 minor league teams, NHL might have 2 or so --  Football at least requires THREE years after high school graduation.

If nothing else I respect Coach Cal in that he is at least upfront and honest about the process.

At one point Duke refused to raise a championship banner as certain members of the team did not get their degrees -  I'm sure the requirements at Duke are MUCH more stringent than at Kentucky --  Now it is at the point where nearly half (if not more) of Duke's players become "Oners and Doners" --  Would be interesting to take a random sample each year of the hoopers acceptance packages (transcripts, SAT's, Essays etc) and Compare them to a random sample of the Others accepted - For example if one recruiting class has 2 African Americans and 2 Whites - Pull a Random Sample of 20 African Americans and 20 Whites --  

Duke would probably need an EXCELLENT Workmen's Compensation policy for all the people who "fell off their chairs laughing" at some of the admission packages -  Probably just looked at the line "special requirements/accomplishments and noted Averaged 28 points 18 Rebounds in High School - Parade/Mc Donalds All-American Team.  Know some of the hoopers might really be qualified for the school - but over time - am pretty sure the results could be  embarassing to the school.  You ask yourself "Can he do the work needed to stay there?" Then you tell yourself - Not a problem -- First semester will be some of those lowest level introductory courses - Second semester a little more on - but of course in March when they "enter the draft" they probably withdraw from school as well to begin preparation for the draft.

And you see some of the names on the banners for NCAA championships - and you wonder how many were really colleges etc and how many of them were won by "the best set of hired guns" in that given year.

NOT to rag on Duke specifically  as other schools are getting/taking the "oneers' and doners" but it is that their normal academic requirements are a lot more difficult than a Kansas, a Kentucky or other schools.

 

No college makes it's athletes meet the academic standards of the general student body. That said, while the kids who play for Harvard probably aren't "Harvard material", they most certainly are smart, and would have no problem getting into a majority of schools as a normal student. The same is not true for most of the big state schools.

Carnegie Mellon has a basketball team - went 14-12 --  while they don't travel as extensively as teams in the A-10, ACC etc - they did have road games in New York, Chicago, Virginia among other places --  I'm willing to bet THEIR Point Guard, Back up Power Forward etc had comparable transcripts/SAT Scores etc in line with the general student body.  AND they probably don't have "too many breathers" in their course loads academically.  (of course ESPN, the PG etc can't bother to cover things like THIS!!!)

I presume that most schools (including DU) might make some accomodations for the athletes --  I think they are capable in general of doing the academic work expected of them --  I DON'T think DU has too many athletes were the admissions department etc basically has to "twist themselves into pretzels" to try to find ways to admit them. Given that Jordan Robinson sat out one year due to his academic situation -- I wonder if in a similar situation at a Powerhouse School would  they would have either found a way to make him eligible - or with drew his scholarship offer.

Mid 70's John Warner (hooper) was in one of my Finance Classes -- ONLY break the Prof gave him was that he would NOT be marked absent if he was on the road with the team -- We had bi-weekly papers etc. which he was required to submit on schedule.

Still when I think of the "COLLEGE Basketball Championship Trophy" - Kentucky won with a "bunch of students who didn't even finish out the second semester" academically -  do wonder if that is as legitimate as all the other trophies (swimming, golf, lacrosse etc) as well as the trophies won by the Division 2 & Division 3 teams in hoops.

THAT is why I think perhaps the NBA should be the focus of these types of players.