Thank you Steve, on point!!!

president wrote:

Scotchngars wrote:

president wrote:

I can't count the number of times our former coach (will not use name or initials) was harshly criticized for his game day coaching. I can't count how many losses were laid at his feet for poor strategy in the final moments of games. It doesn't matter who the coach is, he will be severely criticized here and elsewhere by those who don't happen to agree with a move or moves made during a game.

Did we take a huge step backwards this year?  The obvious answer is a resounding yes. Was it anticipated? Again....YES!  Should we throw up our hands in disbelief or call for a new coach. Of course not. The coaching move was made to enhance the program long-term. It was not intended as a quick fix. As to whether I agree with the move or not is irrevelant at this point. As to whether this will pan out, we will have to wait at least two more years to find out. I realize that this topic is popular and gives us much to discuss and even argue about, but come on. Let's be reasonable here. I was a huge fan of our previous coch. He's gone and he's not coming back. I am still the DU fan that I've been for the last almost fifty years. That won't change. Let's settle back and watch the new regime do it's best to right the ship.

Why are you OK with Ferry taking us long term, and not RE? I did not bash Ferry and not saying you were responding to my post, but will ask if you were. As far as revelant, I just can't get the answer of why we decided by some to be OK with the program being sent backwards and not stay with a winner. Don't tell me plataued, if that's the case Huggins, Calapari, Howland, etc... should be fired. In this League you can not always be in the NCAA, players at the higher level leave in a year, or two, or three, and they have down seasons. RE gave us to much success to early and some on this board could not grasp that achievment and could not suffer through winning seasons, after being a door mat, and that's the truth!!!!

 
Where do you get the idea that I am OK with Ferry long-term and not RE. The fact is that Ron is not here and Ferry is. I didn't fire Ron and did not agree with it at the time. I don't even remember whose post I responded to here. I guess anyone who is beating a dead horse. I will support DU basketball until my dying breath no matter what I think of some of the politics.

You wrote: The coaching move was made to enhance the program long-term. It was not intended as a quick fix.

If I took that out of context my apologies

duq81 wrote:

president wrote:

I can't count the number of times our former coach (will not use name or initials) was harshly criticized for his game day coaching. I can't count how many losses were laid at his feet for poor strategy in the final moments of games. It doesn't matter who the coach is, he will be severely criticized here and elsewhere by those who don't happen to agree with a move or moves made during a game.

In this town, it goes with the territory. Mike Tomlin is a dumb black dude who only got the job because of the Rooney Rule. Dan Bylsma is an idiot, who only won because of the hard work done by Michel Therrien. Jamie Dixon is overrated, and can't win any big games. This is some of what you hear around this town, and this is for coaches who have won big. No real surprise that less successful coaches are going to get bashed. If Ferry can get us one more 3 star player this spring, I'll be inclined to forget about this season. Time will tell what he can do with this talent, but I'd rather have it, than try to win with one and zero star players.

 
Well said '81; Ferry walked into about as bad of a situation as one could construct if you tried; we all knew this was coming; so just get through it and show some support for these guys.  I think the players have played hard all year, and shown character in bouncing back from tough losses; that is a tribute the the character of the players and coaches.  They believe in the coaching staff, and have stuck together despite the tough times. 
Based on some the "experts" comments about coaching, I have to wonder if some of these guys even  go to the games.  FAM complained about the failure to call a time-out during the Charlotte rally.  I can tell you that Ferry called three timeouts during that period.  Be realistic please; if we make two more foul shots down the stretch the game is ours.  If you think we are 17-points better than Charlotte; and expected that lead to stand up you may be dillusional.  Clearly, the Dukes weren't going to maintain the pace for the remainder of the game; and Charlotte was going to exploit our weaknesses.  Still, Charlotte was in the double bonus during the last eight minutes of the game, and had no choice but to keep fouling.  Normally, that is a recipe for failure, but in this case it worked.
 

steve19981 wrote:

Scotchngars wrote:

1) loosing 16 of last 17 is quite evident, with that many losses the players should have a doctorat degree in Basketball education. 2) The only sports talk show that talks about the dukes is the coaches show, no one on the fan, espn, wdve or the X talks about duquesne. 3) Definately one corporate sponsor is leaving, I will not say which out of respect for the Co. its not my place to announce it. 4) 752 people at last home game, which was senior night. Just look around at the games people are not comming, everyone on this board agrees with that, its obvious. 5) A number of Alum's and fans that I know have given up their season tickets and contributions to the athletic fund. Maybe 6 in the Jack Nicholson seats per game, at I believe $2,000 a seat. Attendence was down this year at consel games, almost 2000 less at Xavier game alone.

You don't have to make your brain hurt, its all right in front of you.
For recruits, its my opinion, due to our current state of the program.  I just can't see any player who can turn this program around wanting to come and play for us, maybe I'm wrong, and hopefully so.

How do I contradict myself, what are you referring to there?

1) The fact that they've lost a lot of games and haven't won is still no indicator that they're not learning. You're not proving anything. If they don't appear to have learned by the time they are juniors and seniors, I'll concede.

2) No one talked about us before so why would they talk about us now? They certainly aren't talking about us less. The only time they did was before the Xavier game after the 8-1 start. Heck, I did an interview on trib media for that one. We're still on clearchannel (who was promoting the coaches shows like crazy the other day) for radio broadcasts and FM for games. We have an assigned beat writer from both papers for the first time in what, 2-3 years? I wouldn't call that minimal media coverage.

3) I can't speak to that but how many were added before this season?

4) What is that number based on? I was actually surprised by how many people were at the Charlotte game. My eyeball test suggested the arena was a little better than 1/4 full. I was expecting 752. Still, that's one meaningless game at the end of a terrible season. What does that prove exactly? I agree that real attendance is down this year even if official attendance is up. However, I don't know if that has any bearing on the future and neither do you. It was a bad season for the team so it'll be a bad season in the stands. Winning generates interest in my opinion while losing hurts it. I think I can support that with the 10/40, the run to the NIT and the 8-1 opening in 2009-2010. Again though, how does attendance compare the 2006-2007?

5) You're generalizing a small sample size to the entire population. If we're going to play that game, most people I talk to are taking one on the chin but aren't going anywhere. Why would they? They've already endured worse and for longer. Many are still hopeful.

When have you contradicted yourself? Your stance on recruiting evaluation seems to change based on the argument. If you can't evaluate who the top players are, what difference does it make if you're getting "bottom of the barrell."  You say you support the program but you do what you can to cut it and Ferry down. You lay all blame for the the program's woo's at the feet of the athletic department, but remove all credit for their success and assign it to someone else.

Your evaulation of the team and program as it stands lacks context in my opinion both historically and nationally. If the program is declining, it's not just the product of two more immediate events often cited but it's trended down for some time now. I'll quote myself froma  conversation over at Yuku  to provide support: 

"I know a lot of people won't like me saying this but recruiting has been hit or miss since May of 2008.  Most of the time its been miss. We've gotten commitments from 2 players capable of being above average A-10 starters (Wright, Johnson) and one average one (Talley). TJ, of course, committed in 2007. So over a three year stretch that's 4 players out of 13 who proved to be capable starters and 2 were the same class and played the same position over. This is why we stink right now and really illustrates how things don't change overnight, for better or worse in college basketball. The latent consequences of poor recruiting and bad assistant coaching hires (Scott Rigot, and to the lesser extent and for different reasons Steve Hall) are just now beginning to surface."

TJ leaving didn't cause 8 wins alone. Ron getting fired didn't cause 8 wins alone. Recruiting poorly the last few years was the biggest contributor to 8 wins. TJ leaving only exposed the problem. Ron getting fired only prevented him from using junior college transfers to try to mask the problem in the short run to save his job. Ferry has decided to take his lumps in year one and accept the problem with a vision for the future. Sorry, if that displeases you.

Teams go through ups and downs nationally. Duquesne would not be the first team  that was mediocre to have a terrible season or a bad spell and then rebound. Look at UMass. Look at Charlotte. Look at St Joe's. Look at St Louis. Look at Illinois St. Program is not dying. It just sucks right now and is down from our newly elevated standards. Nothing has occurred that we can't overcome. One sponsor leaving, a handful of donors losing faith, a few hundred season ticket holders not showing up to a meaningless game is not a death knell.

Steve, you asked for the answers, and I gave them to you, if you don't like them, oh well.
If loosing 16 of 17 is supposed to hit them their junior/senior years, please don't tell me thats what you ment originally. No wonder your head hurts.

Mark Madden, wdve, wxdx did start on a sometime basis talk about the Dukes in about Ron's 3rd year, and we had two beat writers then also

I don't evaluate the team, you do with your blogs, I have never made a post of evalluating a player or the team, not my pedigree.

I do not rip Ferry, its funny if you say something negative about him, like in a recent post about his coaching of the Charlotte game, its OK. If I do its not.

My whole point of ever comming on this board was to enlighten the faithful here about how poorly things have been done, and nobody can prove I am wrong about any of it. Obviously you don't want to here the truth, so don't read my post.

Go take two asprins and write a blog to make yourself feel better.

Scotchngars wrote:

Steve, you asked for the answers, and I gave them to you, if you don't like them, oh well.
If loosing 16 of 17 is supposed to hit them their junior/senior years, please don't tell me thats what you ment originally. No wonder your head hurts.

Mark Madden, wdve, wxdx did start on a sometime basis talk about the Dukes in about Ron's 3rd year, and we had two beat writers then also

I don't evaluate the team, you do with your blogs, I have never made a post of evalluating a player or the team, not my pedigree.

I do not rip Ferry, its funny if you say something negative about him, like in a recent post about his coaching of the Charlotte game, its OK. If I do its not.

My whole point of ever comming on this board was to enlighten the faithful here about how poorly things have been done, and nobody can prove I am wrong about any of it. Obviously you don't want to here the truth, so don't read my post.

Go take two asprins and write a blog to make yourself feel better.

Way to pick out minutia from a very long post. The thing is you didn't answer the questions and you're still ducking some.

Fine if you don't evaluate the team, but you do evaluate the program and the state of it. That's what I'm speaking to here.

I ripped on Ferry in a snap shot. You seem convinced that he can't hold Ron's jock.

I don't see you as presenting facts. Rather your opinion based on one side of the story and from a pretty limited perspective. You're giving Ron's slant and I gather that you're close with Ron. I think  idea of the truth is a little biased.

Last edited by steve19981 (3/09/2013 4:47 pm)