Welcome to SHOO-SHOO, RAH-RAH!, the Duquesne Dukes Basketball Fans Message Board!!!!
One of America's Great Message Boards

You know the rules, all inappropriate messages will be deleted!



November 2020 (Hopefully)

Duquesne Women's basketball

November 2020 (Hopefully)

You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?

4/11/2019 1:17 pm  #1

Your too-early Grades - KD Recruiting of Freshmen

For each of his two years, how would you grade KD's recruiting of true freshmen at this point in time?  Since the body of work is incomplete since the freshman classes have only completed 25% or 50% of their four years, this is just a snapshot of your perception at this point in time.  We are not going to consider transfers.

Incoming Freshman 2017-2018 (2 years of potential playing time - 50% completed - team was 35-29)
- Kratholm
- Verhoeven
- Williams, Jr.

Incoming Freshman 2018-2019 (1 year of potential playing time - 25% completed - team was 19-13)
- Bizeau
- Carry
- Ellis
- Kelly
- Norman Jr.
- Rotroff
- Swingle
- Wade


4/11/2019 1:39 pm  #2

Re: Your too-early Grades - KD Recruiting of Freshmen

With 8 new kids coming this year most would have expected some turnover (there are ONLY 5 starting jobs).  It did not hurt the program or the kids. Duq got to look at 8 new kids and when 2-4 of the decided to move on they could re-recruit and better stagger the class years.  KD had to expect this many transfers with 8 new kids.  They had to have been recruiting Miller for some time with the expectation Wade or Carry would leave or not make it ...both see themselves as big time players.  Do both Norman and K Hughes stay if Williams does not leave?? Would they have stayed if Lewis was still here??  I am sure the staff would like to balance out the class years to remain competitive every year so this could not have come as a surprise.

I think the big surprise for the coaching staff was they were unable to reach Williams.  They spotted the talent and hoped to harness it.  Williams will benefit from sitting a year and hopefully mature during that time.  You only get one mulligan...and this is his.  I think Duq will benefit because they will be more team oriented next year because of the growth of Carry, Hughes, Norman and others and ball movement and control will improve.  I was hoping Williams would play with more control and look to improve the players around him but it did not happen.   

Last edited by Dsnyder15 (4/11/2019 1:54 pm)


4/11/2019 2:16 pm  #3

Re: Your too-early Grades - KD Recruiting of Freshmen

Short version, I believe KD has done a terrific job. Each year KD has brought in better players than those who left (with the possible exception of Williams). This has resulted in kids wanting to transfer for more playing time, but resulting in a stronger team,. I concede that this statement may be subjective, but it is my opinion.   


4/11/2019 2:43 pm  #4

Re: Your too-early Grades - KD Recruiting of Freshmen

His first recruiting class at first glance would be a B. He was hired late in the recruiting year, and I would give him an A for Williams, B for Verhoeven and C for Kratholm. I know you said don’t consider the transfer, but you have to, because you have to know wether you are going to keep them and if they are going to fit your program. Williams was an outstanding prospect and fine player for DU but wound up not being his type of player and gets downgraded because of that and he is gone. Verhoeven was a nice defensive big and had the potential to get better offensively. Although you had to worry about him being from California and getting home sick which eventually happened and he is gone. Krathholm was a body we needed but just was not able to compete at this level. So I now downgrade this class to an incomplete or D since they can not help us moving forward.

This years class overall gets a C at this moment in time. Coaches get an F for Bizeau, Wade and Swingle. Do not know if these three could ever compete at the A 10 level because they are all projects and only time will tell if they mature into division 1 players and if they do it will not be at DU because we did not keep them anyway. Ellis is a project and I know this as I officiated his games on several occasions and compared to other division 1 players I officiated he is a little behind. But you can not teach length and I know him and he is from my old neighborhood, I am rooting like hell for him to succeed. So he gets no grade at this time. Carry definitely gets an A, but I think we got lucky with him because of his injuries that scared everyone off him. We were willing to take the chance and it was a great get for us. I give Norman a B because of his shooting, shot selection and attitude. Kelly and Rotroff get C’s because they showed potential and now they have to live up to it, despite their injuries. I would love to see how much each of these kids progress next year to upgrade this to a B hopefully.


4/11/2019 3:05 pm  #5

Re: Your too-early Grades - KD Recruiting of Freshmen

Wildwood, I’m glad I never had you as a teacher! Tough grader! You make some good points, nonetheless.


4/11/2019 3:35 pm  #6

Re: Your too-early Grades - KD Recruiting of Freshmen

Dukes2012 wrote:

Wildwood, I’m glad I never had you as a teacher! Tough grader! You make some good points, nonetheless.

I don't think his grades are tough. I think he's being generous. I would have given last year's class an A for Williams, a C for Verhoeven, and an F for Kratholm. This year he gets an A for Carry, incompletes for Norman, Kelly, and Rotroff, and failures for the ones that left. Of all the players who have left over the last decade, who did much at their next stop? TJ of course, and I Mike had a solid year at SMU, and I expect him to have a nice career there. The rest? Blah!


4/11/2019 3:40 pm  #7

Re: Your too-early Grades - KD Recruiting of Freshmen

Bob Huggins 6 kids leaving program. Hugs 8 in  wins. 3rd in total wins with active coaches. 1 Coach K I mean coach cheater. Zions mother paid 170,000 cash. He didn’t know😂 2 Beihiem at Syracuse. Sh## happens. Dambrot walked into a difficult situation. I agree with CLK. This guy gets it. So does the President & AD. Go Dukes


4/12/2019 10:00 am  #8

Re: Your too-early Grades - KD Recruiting of Freshmen

Here are my grades:
2017-2018 = C-
2018-2019 = B
My brief thoughts:
17-18 on the plus side:  EW really helped this team win 39 games, the most in a two year stretch since Ron Everhart. EW on the A10 All-Rookie team.  TV also assisted in getting the Dukes back to .500, starting 27 games and playing about 20 minutes per game as a freshman.
17-18 on the minus side:  There is nobody left from this class. KD could not get EW on the same page with him; that's a loss since we all know what kind of talent EW has. It was also a complete miss on Kratholm. A bit of an oddity on TV; he fit defensively into KD's system, but his skill set on the offensive end didn't match up with KD's system.

18-19 on the plus side:  You have 5 players that look as if they can heavily contribute to this team. If he holds out physically, Sin Carry looks to be a 4 year starter with an A10 All-Rookie team under his belt. Most project Norman Jr. as getting significant minutes and some project him possibly starting next year. If they both recover physically, both Rotroff and Kelly showed that they are A-10 players and will earn time on the court.  All reports on Ellis are saying the he will contribute especially on the defensive end.
18-19 on the minus side: To me, not much. Tarin Smith was projected to be the starter this year when Wade was signed as the backup PG. Tarin transferred and KD inked Carry, who put a stranglehold on the PG position, blocking out BW.  Biz was intriguing because of his height and shot; Dylan on his size and hands. It's not the first time that a big man didn't quite make it for various reasons; but I think it was worth the 1 year investment to check them out.

     Thread Starter

4/12/2019 2:46 pm  #9

Re: Your too-early Grades - KD Recruiting of Freshmen

I look at recruiting the last 2 years as an extended tryout for some of these guys.  Why let the scholarship sit vacant if you can use it to take a chance on some marginal guys.  The “tryout” begins when players arrive in the summer and extends to the end of the Non-con schedule.  By that time(and probably well before that). The coaches know who can play.  It’s a one-year contract that gives a player a chance to prove he’s D-1 at a level just below P-5; and it gives the coaches a chance to bring in some guys who might be contributors; but if it doesn’t work out they can turn the scholarship around in one year.  It’s just the way things go in today’s game when you are trying to build a competitive team, and you haven’t had many winning teams until last season.


Board footera


Powered by Boardhost. Create a Free Forum



  • Pittsburgh Sports Now