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Out of curiosity Duq81 do or did you work in the athletic department? You wealth of knowledge of DU hoops and remembering of all the former recruits is amazing. If not you got to be voted number one fan. Out of curiosity Duq81 do or did you work in the athletic department? You wealth of knowledge of DU hoops and remembering of all the former recruits is amazing. If not you got to be voted number one fan. Old folks have seen a lot! Wasn't there a reported saviour big that was supposedly recruited by Danny Nee that never got here? Something to do with confusion about eligibility? Maybe I'm mistaken. That was Hernol Hall. He didn't come because Nee got fired. He ended up at Cincy, but was then found to be ineligible and never played. Yes, that's the guy I was talking about. '81, don't have to go to Wikipedia for information on Duquesne basketball as long as you're around. Wasn't there a reported saviour big that was supposedly recruited by Danny Nee that never got here? Something to do with confusion about eligibility? Maybe I'm mistaken. That was Hernol Hall. He didn't come because Nee got fired. He ended up at Cincy, but was then found to be ineligible and never played. Yes, that's the guy I was talking about. '81, don't have to go to Wikipedia for information on Duquesne basketball as long as you're around. Hall was supposed to be a really good player, but we never got to find out. Everhart's lost class was really a killer. It kind of reminds me of the class Paul Evans signed at Pitt that was loaded with high ranking players that never made it on campus, and basically sealed his fate. There were some well regarded prospects in it, who would have been the replacements for Damian, and Bill Clark, and kept the momentum going. Instead, he was left to scramble for players who didn't have what it took to play at our level. When BJ and Eric Evans graduated, and TJ, and Talley transferred after the 2012 season, it left us with the weakest roster since Nee was here. Ron needed at least another year added to his deal (he had 2 years left) to give him a chance to fix the roster, and to me, he'd done enough to deserve that. The extra year would have let him ride out what would have been a rebuilding season in 2013, and given him the 2014 season to show that the train was back on the tracks. That would have given him 8 years to get the job done. If after 8 years it wasn't apparent that we were moving forward, you could have sold me on making a change, as I don't believe in 10 year plans. As it was, the move was made too early. Mr. Quinn thought he could sneak his boy Dino in here, but the uproar scared Dino away. '81, you may remember me as a strong supporter of Ron Everhart from the past, but I didn't post much during the Ferry years unless I was defending Ron's performance here. As much as I liked Ron, and it was a lot, all I ever said when defending him was that he did enough here to deserve the chance to save his job. Given the relationship between Ron and you know who,that was never going to happen. '81, you may remember me as a strong supporter of Ron Everhart from the past, but I didn't post much during the Ferry years unless I was defending Ron's performance here. As much as I liked Ron, and it was a lot, all I ever said when defending him was that he did enough here to deserve the chance to save his job. Given the relationship between Ron and you know who,that was never going to happen. You hit the nail on the head here. I wasn't a "Ron coach for life" guy, despite how nice of a guy he was. He was eventually going to have to reach the NCAAs, or he was going to have to go, but he wasn't at that point when he got fired. You had to take the shooting into account, and the fact that it set his program back a bit, so why not give him a couple more years? I really, really, liked RE & still do. However, he had never & still hasn't coached a team to an NCAA tournament appearance. I have no idea if Amodio was satan or savior. I do know he made a very good hire in RE. I really, really, liked RE & still do. However, he had never & still hasn't coached a team to an NCAA tournament appearance. I have no idea if Amodio was satan or savior. I do know he made a very good hire in RE. A discussion about whether or not Ron Everhart deserved to be fired when it was done borders on ridiculous given how long ago it happened. And I don't disagree that the roster/recruiting at the time did not overwhelm with warm and fuzzys about a breakthrough. But working for the boss he had caused problems that affected every aspect of his coaching responsibilities. I still say he deserved a chance to save his job, and I don't really want to debate about it.If he was dead in the water as you say after even 1 more year, I would say he had his chance even though I loved the guy. . Add these issues to losing the best DU player since Nixon & it was the appropriate time to make a change. This statement made me want to look at whether TJ was indeed the best player we've had since Nixon, especially since he was only here 2 years. It's hard to compare guards to forwards, so I didn't look at Derrick Alston, and Wayne Smith. The guys I decided to look at were obviously Mike James, along with Aaron Jackson, BB Flenory, and Rick Suder. I didn't use the NBA in comparing TJ with MJ. TJ has had a solid start to his NBA career, but Mike's peak was significantly better than what TJ has accomplished so far. TJ will be a free agent this summer, so we'll see what happens if he puts himself in a spot where he has a chance to play a bigger role. I'm not going to list their stats, but based on their play at Duquesne, I'd say TJ was a bit better. A discussion about whether or not Ron Everhart deserved to be fired when it was done borders on ridiculous given how long ago it happened. It's offseason, This is when you get all types of topics. As always, if a topic bores you, feel free not to bother with it. If it's not interesting, it will quickly fall off the page. If you want to see a message board that is crazy, fun and always interesting, I'd suggest visiting this one. I lurk on a lot of other team's boards, but this is the only one I post on. I'd love for our board to be as busy, and off the wall as this. Hall was supposed to be a really good player, but we never got to find out. Everhart's lost class was really a killer. It kind of reminds me of the class Paul Evans signed at Pitt that was loaded with high ranking players that never made it on campus, and basically sealed his fate. There were some well regarded prospects in it, who would have been the replacements for Damian, and Bill Clark, and kept the momentum going. Instead, he was left to scramble for players who didn't have what it took to play at our level. When BJ and Eric Evans graduated, and TJ, and Talley transferred after the 2012 season, it left us with the weakest roster since Nee was here. Ron needed at least another year added to his deal (he had 2 years left) to give him a chance to fix the roster, and to me, he'd done enough to deserve that. The extra year would have let him ride out what would have been a rebuilding season in 2013, and given him the 2014 season to show that the train was back on the tracks. There’s a lot that could be said about that time but the evidence we have from the performance of the members of Everhart’s mythical killer class that never was shows that it was pretty much not true. It was perpetuated by a few in the media at the time in the traditional “let’s bash Duquesne for a while“ articles. Others ran with it. The class looked good on paper, but we know at the end of their college careers that they were not so impressive. Last edited by Face (4/20/2019 8:25 pm) Hall was supposed to be a really good player, but we never got to find out. Everhart's lost class was really a killer. It kind of reminds me of the class Paul Evans signed at Pitt that was loaded with high ranking players that never made it on campus, and basically sealed his fate. There were some well regarded prospects in it, who would have been the replacements for Damian, and Bill Clark, and kept the momentum going. Instead, he was left to scramble for players who didn't have what it took to play at our level. When BJ and Eric Evans graduated, and TJ, and Talley transferred after the 2012 season, it left us with the weakest roster since Nee was here. Ron needed at least another year added to his deal (he had 2 years left) to give him a chance to fix the roster, and to me, he'd done enough to deserve that. The extra year would have let him ride out what would have been a rebuilding season in 2013, and given him the 2014 season to show that the train was back on the tracks. There’s a lot that could be said about that time but the evidence we have from the performance of the members of Everhart’s mythical killer class that never was shows that it was pretty much not true. It was perpetuated by a few in the media at the time in the traditional “let’s bash Duquesne for a while“ articles. Others ran with it. The class looked good on paper, but we know at the end of their college careers that they were not so impressive. That's not the class I was talking about. That's the 2012 class. The class that washed out was the 2011 class. The players are listed in the first post I did about it. That's the class that killed Everhart. The players were; Matt Moss, 6-7 Shakore Grant, 6-8 power forward A.J. West, and 6-10 Chiehk Fall. Last edited by duq81 (4/20/2019 8:50 pm) Hall was supposed to be a really good player, but we never got to find out. Everhart's lost class was really a killer. It kind of reminds me of the class Paul Evans signed at Pitt that was loaded with high ranking players that never made it on campus, and basically sealed his fate. There were some well regarded prospects in it, who would have been the replacements for Damian, and Bill Clark, and kept the momentum going. Instead, he was left to scramble for players who didn't have what it took to play at our level. When BJ and Eric Evans graduated, and TJ, and Talley transferred after the 2012 season, it left us with the weakest roster since Nee was here. Ron needed at least another year added to his deal (he had 2 years left) to give him a chance to fix the roster, and to me, he'd done enough to deserve that. The extra year would have let him ride out what would have been a rebuilding season in 2013, and given him the 2014 season to show that the train was back on the tracks. There’s a lot that could be said about that time but the evidence we have from the performance of the members of Everhart’s mythical killer class that never was shows that it was pretty much not true. It was perpetuated by a few in the media at the time in the traditional “let’s bash Duquesne for a while“ articles. Others ran with it. The class looked good on paper, but we know at the end of their college careers that they were not so impressive. That's not the class I was talking about. That's the 2012 class. The class that washed out was the 2011 class. The players are listed in the first post I did about it. That's the class that killed Everhart. The players were; Matt Moss, 6-7 Shakore Grant, 6-8 power forward A.J. West, and 6-10 Chiehk Fall. Ah, I see. Sorry, the “lost class” discussion is often about the recruits that never were. Last edited by Face (4/20/2019 9:02 pm) There’s a lot that could be said about that time but the evidence we have from the performance of the members of Everhart’s mythical killer class that never was shows that it was pretty much not true. It was perpetuated by a few in the media at the time in the traditional “let’s bash Duquesne for a while“ articles. Others ran with it. The class looked good on paper, but we know at the end of their college careers that they were not so impressive. That's not the class I was talking about. That's the 2012 class. The class that washed out was the 2011 class. The players are listed in the first post I did about it. That's the class that killed Everhart. The players were; Matt Moss, 6-7 Shakore Grant, 6-8 power forward A.J. West, and 6-10 Chiehk Fall. Ah, I see. Sorry, the “lost class” discussion is often about the recruits that never were. I believe Fall and Grant were non qualifiers. No telling how good they were. West definitely would have helped, but there were issues with him as well. This is where a program can get messed up. There are players out there that are better than what a program usually can get, but these players have issues that cause the better programs to back off. Ron took a gamble to get some real size in here, and it basically blew up in his face. Had all of these guys enrolled on time at Duquesne, that 2012 team might have made some noise with the extra size. The next year, those guys would have taken over from BJ, and the team would at a minimum remained competitive. Coaches are under pressure to win, and sometimes they have to take chances. Remember Sean Rooney, and Willie Cauley? A pair of knuckleheads, but either of them would have lifted the Derrick Alston teams to another level had they had their heads on straight. Instead, the 4 spot remained a gaping hole on those teams, preventing them from reaching "the next level".
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Re: Early entrants and transfers
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Re: Early entrants and transfers
Wildwood13 wrote:
Nee tried to leverage Hernol Hall into keeping his job. Thankfully, it didn't work. He would have never played a minute for the Dukes, as it was discovered that he had played some sort of organized ball in his homeland that caused him to no longer have any eligibility left.
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Re: Early entrants and transfers
duq81 wrote:Westender wrote:
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Re: Early entrants and transfers
Westender wrote:duq81 wrote:Westender wrote:
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Re: Early entrants and transfers
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Re: Early entrants and transfers
Westender wrote:
I want to see what happens with Pat Chambers at Penn St. This will be his 9th year coming up. I know he won an NIT, but you'd have to think he gets the boot if they don't dance this coming year. You can't expect to come up dry for 9 years at that level and keep your job.
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Re: Early entrants and transfers
At the end of 6 years RE was much further away from producing so much as a once off tournament team than he was at the end of year 4. Likewise, he was not close to making the program into a consistent top tier team in the conference. His teams were dreadful in February & March over his last 2 years despite having strong talent & experience. Add these issues to losing the best DU player since Nixon & it was the appropriate time to make a change.
That the administration totally bungled his dismissal & the next hire have no bearing on the fact that RE was dead in the water after 6 seasons.
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Re: Early entrants and transfers
phil95 wrote:
At the end of 6 years RE was much further away from producing so much as a once off tournament team than he was at the end of year 4. Likewise, he was not close to making the program into a consistent top tier team in the conference. His teams were dreadful in February & March over his last 2 years despite having strong talent & experience. Add these issues to losing the best DU player since Nixon & it was the appropriate time to make a change.
That the administration totally bungled his dismissal & the next hire have no bearing on the fact that RE was dead in the water after 6 seasons.
As far as "losing" TJ is concerned, I have no doubt that tampering was going on - even by Pitt among others. Add that to the belief by the McConnell clan that TJ was too good to be playing with the dregs that Ron had him playing with, and there was no way he was going to stay here. And the contacts the McConnells had in the coaching community were also a factor in his departure it appeared.
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Re: Early entrants and transfers
phil95 wrote:
BB is a more difficult comparison because of the lack of a 3 point shot during his career. BB was more of a scorer than TJ, and maintained a very good shooting percentage for a scoring point guard. He wasn't as good as TJ on defense, and was not quite the assist man that TJ was. This is pretty much a wash. Next up is Rick Suder. Rick wasn't a point guard, but you can still make the comparison. Overall, Rick doesn't measure up, but oh, what a senior year! Outstanding!! Deadly from the field, and the line, and 118 assists too. Still, I put TJ ahead of him. Last, but not least, is Aaron Jackson. Aaron was good from the start, but he continually raised his game while he was here. His shooting percentages from 2 were insane, well above 60%, which is what you expect from centers, and power forwards. This was due to his ability to get to the rim. He improved his shooting from 3 as a senior, and was dishing out assists like he was Norm Nixon. We all would have liked to have seen the numbers that TJ would have put up as a 4 year player here, but unfortunately, that didn't happen. As a result, my conclusion is that the best Duquesne backcourt player since Norman Nixon, is Aaron Jackson. His senior year was beyond belief. TJ ranks a very close second, so your opinion was by no means outlandish at all,
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Re: Early entrants and transfers
Westender wrote:
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Re: Early entrants and transfers
duq81 wrote:
Jack and Moore were the only two signed. They were role players at best. Jack dealt with injuries. Moore was suspended for selling team gear at one point.
Other names were associated but none were signed. People like to throw Coty Clarke in there but he was never actually associated with the Dukes in any serious coverage at the time. Khalil Johnson did nothing. Only Brandon Taylor had a productive career and again - he wasn’t even signed. He and Clarke had enough higher profile interest that they’d never have come anyway.
Clarke’s Rivals profile, showing no interest/offers from DU.
Couldn’t find a Rivals page for Taylor, but here’s ESPN showing only Utah and St. Mary’s.
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Re: Early entrants and transfers
Face wrote:duq81 wrote:
Jack and Moore were the only two signed. They were role players at best. Jack dealt with injuries. Moore was suspended for selling team gear at one point.
Other names were associated but none were signed. People like to throw Coty Clarke in there but he was never actually associated with the Dukes in any serious coverage at the time. Khalil Johnson did nothing. Only Brandon Taylor had a productive career and again - he wasn’t even signed. He and Clarke had enough higher profile interest that they’d never have come anyway.
Clarke’s Rivals profile, showing no interest/offers from DU.
Couldn’t find a Rivals page for Taylor, but here’s ESPN showing only Utah and St. Mary’s.
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Re: Early entrants and transfers
duq81 wrote:Face wrote:duq81 wrote:
Jack and Moore were the only two signed. They were role players at best. Jack dealt with injuries. Moore was suspended for selling team gear at one point.
Other names were associated but none were signed. People like to throw Coty Clarke in there but he was never actually associated with the Dukes in any serious coverage at the time. Khalil Johnson did nothing. Only Brandon Taylor had a productive career and again - he wasn’t even signed. He and Clarke had enough higher profile interest that they’d never have come anyway.
Clarke’s Rivals profile, showing no interest/offers from DU.
Couldn’t find a Rivals page for Taylor, but here’s ESPN showing only Utah and St. Mary’s.
I don’t think Moss ever amounted to anything. I can’t find where Fall or Grant ended up, hard to track those JUCOs. West did alright if I recall.
I agree with the gist of it. The biggest problem was not having anyone to take over for Saunders and Clark after they graduated.
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Re: Early entrants and transfers
Face wrote:duq81 wrote:Face wrote:
Jack and Moore were the only two signed. They were role players at best. Jack dealt with injuries. Moore was suspended for selling team gear at one point.
Other names were associated but none were signed. People like to throw Coty Clarke in there but he was never actually associated with the Dukes in any serious coverage at the time. Khalil Johnson did nothing. Only Brandon Taylor had a productive career and again - he wasn’t even signed. He and Clarke had enough higher profile interest that they’d never have come anyway.
Clarke’s Rivals profile, showing no interest/offers from DU.
Couldn’t find a Rivals page for Taylor, but here’s ESPN showing only Utah and St. Mary’s.
I don’t think Moss ever amounted to anything. I can’t find where Fall or Grant ended up, hard to track those JUCOs. West did alright if I recall.
I agree with the gist of it. The biggest problem was not having anyone to take over for Saunders and Clark after they graduated.
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