Wildwood13, so you are agreeing that the Dukes are not getting the performances they need out of the 2 and 3 spots?

I am pretty sure Coach Dambrot realizes this teams limitations regarding the 2 & 3. He has a solid core for next year  IF he fills it with high powered transfers. I agree with Pistol as to shaking it up with recruiting. Familiarity breeds contempt. Bring in some new blood recruiting wise. Just look at the Pitt Football staff under Jackie Sherill 1978 Jimmy Johnson Joe More Fazio ...Loyalty is a great quality but performance as to recruiting is the lifeblood for success. Besides Sincere Carry the recruiting has been at best a D.  Transfer A Plus. Off season huge. Dambrot coached a solid game ran out of bullets. Shake it up.

Wildwood13 wrote:

If he is aware of the limitations at the 2 and 3, then why is he so easy to give up on Lewis and Williams? Why not try and work with them ? I believe he is a good salesman or is arrogant. I say arrogant because of the following. Past history with his statement at Central Michigan which led to his dismissal. The double technical versus PSU. His disrespectful actions to Ray Goss. His no show to the post game shows. The fact that 11 players that played for him at DU have left in his three years at Duquesne, which is above the national transfer rate. The 11 players mean either he does not know what kind of player it takes to compete in the A10 or that he can't get along with them or is a bad judge of character.

I don't know why things with Williams went sour and I won't speculate. The Lewis thing bothered me much more. KD was so quick to cut his minutes. I think KD thought he had a better player in Frankie Hughes. When Hughes didn't play at the expected level, it backfired because Lewis was gone. TDM can give us dud after dud and he stays on the floor. I guess our options are limited. The incoming guys appear to be of a higher pedigree than the two guards we brought in this year, so expect a serious battle for playing time next fall.

I guess you think giving up 78.25 points a game on the average is good. That is the average score of our opponents for the games we lost. The most anyone scored in those losses was 83. So it's not like the number is overinflated. Our two best wins came against the offensively challenged St Louis team.

And let's look at what we've recruited at the guard spot:
Wade - MAC level
Miller - NEC level
Buckley - MAC level
Norman - 1 good game, 2 good half's out of 24 games, you tell me
SCarry - quality recruit

I am not counting the transfers as FHughes was at least an A-10 player (size, decent D, streaky shooter) , but my guess is he is gone.  TDM good spark player that goes off 1 out of 3 games (credit to the GMan for this stat) is pesky defender, but is costs you when his shot is off and when he has to play half court D - too small and other guards can easily shoot over him.  My take is thus too many recruiting mistakes - see above - and time to question who is making some of these scholie calls.  Get an ace recruiter on staff KD.  Too many misses in my view. 
Bigs:
A. Kelly - Looks like an A-10 athlete who was starting to show it until injury.  Jury out though given injury and I view his contribution as critical, but I am keeping my fingers crossed.
A. Rotroff - having serious doubts about his quickness at this level.  Yes I know he is back from an injury, but I still don't see a big upside - maybe serviceable at best.
So what happens when Hughes and Marcus graduate???? 
James Ellis is a wildcard.  He looks like an athlete, has the length and in very limited action seems to have good hands, quickness and footwork.  Is he too much of a problem though?  What a shame, but if he isn't playing at all now, what faith do we have that he will start to contribute next year when we will need him to get time/experience for when Hughes is gone???!!!

This next recruiting class looks good on  paper and on film and appears to be KD's best.  I hope its the case, but Acuff especially looks like the real deal and we can obviously use a 6'4" shooter like Jett and a 3 Star 6'8" PF - as the Professor says......"time will tell".  I still like MAustin's upside, he just needs to get stronger and work on his outside shot, but he can handle the ball pretty good, get to the hoop and I think is coachable and a hard worker.  Loot at SC's improvement from year 1 to 2 and that is what I hope we see from Maceo - plus he had the family tragedy. 

As Westender noted though, look at the quality freshman and sophs on so many other A-10 teams!  Hell, the Bonnies start 4 Soph and 1 freshman!!  All these teams in the league are getting better and are young!!  A lot of these teams have freshman who contribute and that is my gauge of the quality of the recruit.  You don't have to be a stud out of the gate, but you have to be able to contribute effectively 5 to 7 min a game as a freshman if you are a good recruit.  Can we say this about this year's freshman, outside of Maceo (before the tragedy)??????
 

Nobody on this thread has written anything crazy. The vast majority of player evaluations are both accurate & consistent from poster to poster.

However, I am willing to cut KD a bit more slack on recruiting than many not because I think differently about the players here & players gone but, because I think we, as a group, are quick to forget that 3 & 2 years ago most quality recruits would have nothing to do with the program. To some extent, this is still true.

EW, Sin, Kelly, MHughes, Marcus, Maceo, Steele, Jett, Acuff, & Harris represent, in different ways, a nifty piece of recruiting. I also think it is a 60/40 proposition that Rotroff ends up in this category. Given the product KD had to sell recruits & their support systems the first 3 years, I am not sure how much better recruiting could have gone thus far. All that changes for kids looking to sign LOIs next November.


After 3 full seasons of steady improvement, the anticipation of an experienced, strong 20-21 team, & the excitement of the new facilities, I think the incoming class of 2021 will be a clear indicator of whether KD will end up being either a major hero in DU basketball history or a minor one.

I predict that come late March, KD takes off the gloves & ushers some less talented/lower upside players out the door toward situations better suited to their abilities while making a hard push for upgraded late signers & immediately qualifying transfers.

I nitpick this coach as much as anybody on this board but, I know he is consumed by succeeding on the Bluff. I also trust that he won't make a bunch of foolish, shady things to make that happen. These are 2 of the qualities I like best in him.

I am much more concerned about the development of the players already in the system than I am about the quality of recruits year over year plateauing.

3rd year Norman, Rotroff, & Kelly will probably have to show significant year over year growth to remain relevant. The 3 or 4 seniors have to each have career years. Ellis, Miller, & Buckley won't stick if they don't demonstrate a strong upside.

The days of a player hanging around for 4 years to get 8 quality minutes a game as a junior & 10 as a senior are long gone. Neither players nor successful programs will stand for that. That's just the way NCAA Division I basketball works in 2020. KD will embrace that reality, (probably already has), or suffer the consequences of ignoring contemporary realities.

All posters should steady themselves for the inevitable undesirable tranferring-out that is sure to happen in the offseason.

Finally, please use Buckley & Miller a bit to facilitate pressing on & off throughout the game. This seems to be evolving into a strength that keeps everyone hyper-engaged. TDM has shown repeatedly that he has neither the ability to trap hard & fall back to "straight" defense nor the discipline to consistently choose the correct time to bom3 away when successful defensive pressure creates turnovers. If he is on when the diamond press is working he should stsy on the court. If he isn't, let Miller bust his ass in 3 minute spurts to create havoc. He has done well with this.

I do think, beyond the recruiting, if Dambrot is going to have to adjust his style of coaching for the A10. He likes the big post up guys. That works, but it works best when the other team doesn't have a counter. At Akron, he could recruit a big that was too much for the rest of the conference. 
In the A10 - that is going to be a lot tougher, as the resources the rest of the teams in the league are much greater. The flip side is - who does your post up big defend when the rest of the conference, aside from SLU, wants to play quicker athletic big guys who can shoot or drive?

I'm not saying he'll have to wholesale abandon it - but finding a guy who both defend a modern big, and score like an old school big is going to be very tough to find, and even tougher to convince to come to Duquesne. I think that if you don't find that guy, playing that system puts a lower ceiling on the results than what could be.
I do want to say that Dambrot is a good coach - and has brought the Dukes back to a level of respectability, despite not having a full roster of real A10 guys. If he wants to take the next step, recruiting needs to improve, or some stylistic changes need to occur.

I think Austin has hit the freshman wall - it happens - but I do think he is an A10 player. I think if TDM isn't making shots, Miller needs to get more time in the second half. TDM is game, but too many guys can just shoot over him, and if he isn't making shots, it's going to get out of hand. Miller may not give you as much on offense, but if TDM is having an off night, it's not that big of a downgrade. Miller may not be up for it - but it would be nice to know for certain.

I think LN3 and Mike before him have suffered from not a lack of ball movement. It's hard to succeed as a catch and shoot player if you aren't getting the ball where you need it. TDM has the range to make it less of an issue, but shooting from that far is not ideal.

Kelly is maybe the most interesting guy who isn't getting minutes this year. He showed some flashes last year of what the Dukes need, but as we see with Rotroff - that injury can slow you down the next season. 

 

I knew Maceo would come up in the conversation; but remember PSU wasn’t in the position last year, that they are this year.  Maceo had a great chance to start at Duquesne, and based on what Penn State has done this year; probably would have been a complimentary player his first few years.  Northwestern is a BIG 10 bottom feeder at this point; so neither were highly regarded in their league when Maceo was recruited.  I agree he was a “good get” for the Dukes; and will hopefully grow as a scorer in the next few years.  He is getting great experience playing at DU, that should benefit him In the future.  That’s something that may attract a kid with BIG10 offers; instant playing time.
The thing that is hard about competing with the big dogs; they will take guys who can score over guys who are not projected to be scorers at the next level; so you take a chance and hope they can score.  The Dukes need some scorers.

Westender wrote:

I think it very evident that the family tragedy has had an effect on Maceo. However, I was expecting a little more from him, even before that occurred. I say that based on the press clippings and hoopla surrounding his recruitment. I don't have the stats, but I think a number of players not rated nearly as high as he was had much better Freshman years. Lofton from Bonaventure comes to mind. Not always but usually, the best players are good and superi6or performers even when they're Freshman.(Mitchell at UMASS). I still believe in Maceo. I think he will come around and be a very good player for the Dukes.

I believe this too. That said. he is a bit frail. Hard work during the offseason can fix that. With all of that in mind, I'm sure there will be competition come next fall. Coaches that assume a player will step up with no alternative if he doesn't risk failure. KD is smarter than that. Hughes, Kelly, and Rotroff not being healthy has left KD short of options this year, thus he has to live with the struggles of certain players.
 

mm76or99 wrote:

I do think, beyond the recruiting, if Dambrot is going to have to adjust his style of coaching for the A10. He likes the big post up guys. That works, but it works best when the other team doesn't have a counter. At Akron, he could recruit a big that was too much for the rest of the conference. 
In the A10 - that is going to be a lot tougher, as the resources the rest of the teams in the league are much greater. The flip side is - who does your post up big defend when the rest of the conference, aside from SLU, wants to play quicker athletic big guys who can shoot or drive?

I'm not saying he'll have to wholesale abandon it - but finding a guy who both defend a modern big, and score like an old school big is going to be very tough to find, and even tougher to convince to come to Duquesne. I think that if you don't find that guy, playing that system puts a lower ceiling on the results than what could be.
I do want to say that Dambrot is a good coach - and has brought the Dukes back to a level of respectability, despite not having a full roster of real A10 guys. If he wants to take the next step, recruiting needs to improve, or some stylistic changes need to occur.

I think Austin has hit the freshman wall - it happens - but I do think he is an A10 player. I think if TDM isn't making shots, Miller needs to get more time in the second half. TDM is game, but too many guys can just shoot over him, and if he isn't making shots, it's going to get out of hand. Miller may not give you as much on offense, but if TDM is having an off night, it's not that big of a downgrade. Miller may not be up for it - but it would be nice to know for certain.

I think LN3 and Mike before him have suffered from not a lack of ball movement. It's hard to succeed as a catch and shoot player if you aren't getting the ball where you need it. TDM has the range to make it less of an issue, but shooting from that far is not ideal.

Kelly is maybe the most interesting guy who isn't getting minutes this year. He showed some flashes last year of what the Dukes need, but as we see with Rotroff - that injury can slow you down the next season. 

 

I have to be honest and say I don't recognize your screen name, but you have made more sense than anyone else in this thread. The A-10 may not be a power conference, but it is a tough conference to coach and compete in because of the diversity it presents. Dayton can do just about anything they need to to win. URI, Bonaventure, and St. Louis can outphysical you and muck up a game to win. Richmond and Davidson spread you out and try to outsmart you for the win. VCU wants to press you into exhaustion. The best players in the country may not be in the A-10, but it is about as diverse a conference from a scheme standpoint as you'll find. 

Dambrot is the best coach we've had in quite some time, and more importantly he's not looking to use us as a stepping stone. He'd be the first to tell you we're not where we want to be or should be at this point, but who else would you rather have? Three years seems like an eternity to us diehard fans, but it's not all that long in reality. It's easy to lose focus on reality in today's college athletics, but it's not even an entire recruiting cycle.

I have no doubt Austin will turn into one of the better players in the A-10 in his time here. He's a true freshman though. He's never played this many games before, and that's not even thinking about the unthinkable tragedy he's gone through. I would agree it is time at this point to give other players opportunities to pick up the slack this season, but it is way too early to lose confidence in his ability.

Norman has stepped up this season into a real player. With all the talk about A-10 players, I think it's getting lost what that actually means. Is he an all-conference player? No, not at this point; but he is getting 20 minutes a game and has improved his game to where he is a net gain even when his shots aren't falling. He's an A-10 player, even if he's not all-conference level yet. Let's not forget, he's just a sophomore too.

Kelly, Rotroff, Ellis, and most of all Hughes haven't been able to really contribute to this team. The team as is right now has to be more consistent, and play up to their talent level, but if you think about what the team could be with all those missing pieces I'm excited for next year. I haven't started looking to next year yet, because we've seen what kind of team we have in the two games against Dayton. I think next year will be much better even if we don't include the recruits we have coming in though.

Lucky, on point about Marcus really being a strong 3 and Maceo translating to a 2.  Maceo will work and his shot and get stronger, but I agree, your best line-up is with Marcus at the 3 (creates mismatch with his strength) and an athletic/long  4 (Kelly or the Dre Harris) with Hughes/Rotroff/Ellis (hopefully) at the 5.  Mace can get spelled by Norman/Jett and Acuff can spell both Sin and Mac with TDM getting his opportunities.  I just don't see Miller and Buckley at the needed level at this point. 

luckymcd wrote:

mm76or99 wrote:

I do think, beyond the recruiting, if Dambrot is going to have to adjust his style of coaching for the A10. He likes the big post up guys. That works, but it works best when the other team doesn't have a counter. At Akron, he could recruit a big that was too much for the rest of the conference. 
In the A10 - that is going to be a lot tougher, as the resources the rest of the teams in the league are much greater. The flip side is - who does your post up big defend when the rest of the conference, aside from SLU, wants to play quicker athletic big guys who can shoot or drive?

I'm not saying he'll have to wholesale abandon it - but finding a guy who both defend a modern big, and score like an old school big is going to be very tough to find, and even tougher to convince to come to Duquesne. I think that if you don't find that guy, playing that system puts a lower ceiling on the results than what could be.
I do want to say that Dambrot is a good coach - and has brought the Dukes back to a level of respectability, despite not having a full roster of real A10 guys. If he wants to take the next step, recruiting needs to improve, or some stylistic changes need to occur.

I think Austin has hit the freshman wall - it happens - but I do think he is an A10 player. I think if TDM isn't making shots, Miller needs to get more time in the second half. TDM is game, but too many guys can just shoot over him, and if he isn't making shots, it's going to get out of hand. Miller may not give you as much on offense, but if TDM is having an off night, it's not that big of a downgrade. Miller may not be up for it - but it would be nice to know for certain.

I think LN3 and Mike before him have suffered from not a lack of ball movement. It's hard to succeed as a catch and shoot player if you aren't getting the ball where you need it. TDM has the range to make it less of an issue, but shooting from that far is not ideal.

Kelly is maybe the most interesting guy who isn't getting minutes this year. He showed some flashes last year of what the Dukes need, but as we see with Rotroff - that injury can slow you down the next season. 

 

I have to be honest and say I don't recognize your screen name, but you have made more sense than anyone else in this thread. The A-10 may not be a power conference, but it is a tough conference to coach and compete in because of the diversity it presents. Dayton can do just about anything they need to to win. URI, Bonaventure, and St. Louis can outphysical you and muck up a game to win. Richmond and Davidson spread you out and try to outsmart you for the win. VCU wants to press you into exhaustion. The best players in the country may not be in the A-10, but it is about as diverse a conference from a scheme standpoint as you'll find. 

Dambrot is the best coach we've had in quite some time, and more importantly he's not looking to use us as a stepping stone. He'd be the first to tell you we're not where we want to be or should be at this point, but who else would you rather have? Three years seems like an eternity to us diehard fans, but it's not all that long in reality. It's easy to lose focus on reality in today's college athletics, but it's not even an entire recruiting cycle.

I have no doubt Austin will turn into one of the better players in the A-10 in his time here. He's a true freshman though. He's never played this many games before, and that's not even thinking about the unthinkable tragedy he's gone through. I would agree it is time at this point to give other players opportunities to pick up the slack this season, but it is way too early to lose confidence in his ability.

Norman has stepped up this season into a real player. With all the talk about A-10 players, I think it's getting lost what that actually means. Is he an all-conference player? No, not at this point; but he is getting 20 minutes a game and has improved his game to where he is a net gain even when his shots aren't falling. He's an A-10 player, even if he's not all-conference level yet. Let's not forget, he's just a sophomore too.

Kelly, Rotroff, Ellis, and most of all Hughes haven't been able to really contribute to this team. The team as is right now has to be more consistent, and play up to their talent level, but if you think about what the team could be with all those missing pieces I'm excited for next year. I haven't started looking to next year yet, because we've seen what kind of team we have in the two games against Dayton. I think next year will be much better even if we don't include the recruits we have coming in though.

And I have to be honest and say, luckymcd, that your post makes just as much sense as mm76or99's. This other stuff about Dambrot, who, as someone else pointed out, isn't through a complete recruiting cycle, to me is shocking stuff. I believe I've alluded to this a number of times: Who would have ever thought there'd be so much discontent about a program that has flirted with 20 wins two years in a row after decades of garbage? Other than Everhart's successful years, remember guys like Edgar, Porter and Nee? I do. I don't wish to go back. Mostly 40-plus years of futility doesn't get unraveled in three years. Why sell this program short under this coach? So what if a lot of other A10 team are getting better, too. So is Duquesne. I seem to recall quite a bit of excitement and positive play this year so far. You can't win them all and Duquesne certainly hasn't lost most of them, like a lot of other years. So what's all the negativity with this coach? I am on board with him. From what I can see, this team likes to play for him and for the most part, he seems to know what he's doing.