duq81 wrote:

Davies wasn't really unsuccessful. He reached a Final Four, and an NIT Championship game. There was no postseason for most of Davies tenure, and when the NIT and NCAAs came about, there were never more than 16 spots available. As a result, the Dukes only played in the postseason 4 times under Davies. His greatest teams (Paul Birch) came in the pre tournament era. There were many more bids available during the Moore era, with 34 bids available from 1953 on. As such, it's not really a fair comparison. Keep in mind also that in an 8 team event, you're facing an elite team immediately. In a 16 team event, if you're a high seed, you get an inferior opponent in your first game. Makes a difference in your final record.
 

I never said Davies was unsuccessful, just less successful than Moore. I was looking at postseason records more than bids or rounds reached; Davies was 3-4, Moore 12-6. Good point I hadn't considered on the number of teams affecting that. I still think Moore was more successful though.

phil95 wrote:

During Coronapalooza I have been reading a ton about basketball, both professional & college, in the first half of the 20th century.

History has recorded Paul Birch & Mo Becker as pretty unsavory characters. Paul Birch in particular takes a beating as both a coach & a player.

I have long known that the double-champion 1950 CCNY team's reputation was damaged as a result of convictions for point shaving after they graduated. (Not game dumping. The story goes that they didn't throw games but did mess with the spread.) I didn't realize KD's Uncle Irwin was considered the student ringleader.

I would love to hear KD and/or his dad's perspective on these events. The current scholarship on the subject stinks. It had to have been awkward for Sid to be a player at a prominent program while his big brother was being tried & after he was convicted.

I knew all about Irwin Dambrot. Never heard anything bad about Birch, or Becker. I know that Becker was the coach at Braddock when Billy Knight arrived. Both he, and his successor, Andy Zezza, tried to convince Red Manning to do what was necessary to get Knight to the bluff, which was to sign his best friend, Carl Morris. Red wouldn't do this, much to his regret.  Birch, Becker, and Zezza were all part of the very successful Chick Davies coaching tree that had such an impact on local high school hoops.

If you haven't, check out Charlie Rosen's, The Chosen Game. The writing is ok at best & the editorial mistakes are rampant but the information is plentiful while pointing to a bunch of good sources.

I really went down a rabbit hole finding & reading his source material.

Covid curiosity syndrome is real.

Covid 2020 - internet access = increased divorce rate