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There's been much talk about who we can, and should play. Taking that into consideration, I went looking at some schedules of other teams. I decided to look at three types of teams. Power programs just below the blue blood level, power conference also rans, and schools at, or near our level. What I found wasn't encouraging. The big time programs were; Ohio St., Michigan, and Florida. It was pretty much one road game per year, always against another big name, frequently during a conference challenge. Lot's of cupcake home games, and then 3 -5 holiday tourney games, usually at a neutral site, but sometimes at home. One exception was OSU playing Cincy in Cincy, but of course they had plenty of fans there. They didn't even schedule our peer teams as home games. I guess they can't risk the cupcake having a rock in it. The also rans (Clemson, Minnesota) played the same type of schedule, with the difference being that their power conference opponents tended to be also rans like them (in fact they played each other one year). In both groups, the only time any of our peers popped up was in a holiday tourney. Then I looked at our peers (VCU, Dayton, SMU, Tulsa, St. Mary's). Lots of home games, but not a power school in sight, with one exception. VCU was able to wring a visit out of LSU for reducing Will Wade's buyout. Lot's of home games against lower level schools, again with holiday tourneys providing access to games against big schools. Tulsa didn't play in a tourney, instead playing 3 road games against middling P6 schools. Dayton's home schedule was awful, plus they couldn't even get a road game vs a power school. Fortunately, they got 5 good neutral site opponents. What this tells me is that games against the Ohio State's of the world are mostly possible in holiday tourneys. They are never coming here, nor will any of the also rans (unless we become a powerhouse). There doesn't seem to be many instances of our peers playing each other either. This needs to change. The A10/ MWC Challenge is a good start, although as we improve, hopefully we'll be matched with a better team. Dambrot and Harper need to try to setup another home and home with an AAC, WCC, or at minimum MVC school to alternate with the MWC game. Belmont works for now. If the MWC game is here, play the other game on the road. We absolutely have to start getting into better tournaments. The chance to play big teams in a neutral setting is just so valuable. Hopefully we're becoming a more attractive program, and will be able to land a spot in these better events going forward. The thing we're in this coming year isn't great. Playing Maryland is nice, but it's at their place, and then we get 2 Quad 4 home games that will wreck our sos. An event against solid teams at a neutral site will work much better for us. Duq81 great post totally agree. Again I have already posted my kudos to the job done by the A10 commish regarding the MWC tourney. I bet Arkansas would do a 1 for 1, their fans are looking for any excuse to get out of that state. :-) Back in a day, I was friends with Ron. We got into a discussion about this very subject. We both agreed Penn State was a good addition, being Big-10. But now looking at today's "playing the plus-points game", I would look to take on any Big conf. lower teams as a way to get some bump in the numbers game. Back then, Penn State was a big name that didn't put much into their basketball program, and playing up there was like a neutral site. Most of this type of team would play a home and away even now. It's the "strength of schedule" component that we can get, vs a very low opponent with no "strength of schedule. Get what you can get. Back in a day, I was friends with Ron. We got into a discussion about this very subject. We both agreed Penn State was a good addition, being Big-10. But now looking at today's "playing the plus-points game", I would look to take on any Big conf. lower teams as a way to get some bump in the numbers game. Back then, Penn State was a big name that didn't put much into their basketball program, and playing up there was like a neutral site. Most of this type of team would play a home and away even now. It's the "strength of schedule" component that we can get, vs a very low opponent with no "strength of schedule. Get what you can get. We might sometimes get an away game vs a low rung major, but they aren't coming here. Other than what are pretty much neutral court games against Pitt, Penn St., and WVU, don't look for any P5 schools to come here unless we become somewhat of a big name. There is just no reason at all for any of them to come. They all want home games, and if they need to put a 35-70 NET type team on the schedule, they can just do a home and home with another middling type P5, a school their fans have heard of. Georgia was three spots ahead of us in NET last year. If Clemson wanted to add a decent H/H, who do you think will give them a more marketable game, Duquesne or Georgia? Not even in the same universe. People will probably not even have a clue as to how good the teams are, but a win over Georgia looks good, a loss doesn't hurt much. A loss to Duquesne looks horrible. It will stay this way unless we become a fixture in the top 40 NET, a frequent resident of the Top 25 polls, and an every year NCAA team. That's the only thing they respect. It's become way worse since Ron was here. Low risk, high reward is what they're looking for. Can't blame them, coaches and ADs are making crazy money, they want to keep those jobs as long as they can. Back in a day, I was friends with Ron. We got into a discussion about this very subject. We both agreed Penn State was a good addition, being Big-10. But now looking at today's "playing the plus-points game", I would look to take on any Big conf. lower teams as a way to get some bump in the numbers game. Back then, Penn State was a big name that didn't put much into their basketball program, and playing up there was like a neutral site. Most of this type of team would play a home and away even now. It's the "strength of schedule" component that we can get, vs a very low opponent with no "strength of schedule. Get what you can get. We might sometimes get an away game vs a low rung major, but they aren't coming here. Other than what are pretty much neutral court games against Pitt, Penn St., and WVU, don't look for any P5 schools to come here unless we become somewhat of a big name. There is just no reason at all for any of them to come. They all want home games, and if they need to put a 35-70 NET type team on the schedule, they can just do a home and home with another middling type P5, a school their fans have heard of. Georgia was three spots ahead of us in NET last year. If Clemson wanted to add a decent H/H, who do you think will give them a more marketable game, Duquesne or Georgia? Not even in the same universe. People will probably not even have a clue as to how good the teams are, but a win over Georgia looks good, a loss doesn't hurt much. A loss to Duquesne looks horrible. It will stay this way unless we become a fixture in the top 40 NET, a frequent resident of the Top 25 polls, and an every year NCAA team. That's the only thing they respect. It's become way worse since Ron was here. Low risk, high reward is what they're looking for. Can't blame them, coaches and ADs are making crazy money, they want to keep those jobs as long as they can. This is where Ferry just drove us into the ground. Ron had something going here, then we took a deep dive (for twice the money) with Ferry. Now we are digging out of a very deep hole, and this Virus BS just killed a chance of some very likely post-season run. God, we must be really cursed. Next year has got to produce some kind of recognition or it will be very hard for even Dambroth to keep us climbing out of the Ferry years. Agreed Duq81, going to Penn state would be a great add and probably the most realistic option of another P5 opponent. I'm pretty sure I saw a while ago that the MWC/A10 challenge game is in Wyoming. Agreed Duq81, going to Penn state would be a great add and probably the most realistic option of another P5 opponent. I'm pretty sure I saw a while ago that the MWC/A10 challenge game is in Wyoming. It is a new world. Penn State may duck us like Pitt. Two teams now inferior to us, yet can not risk getting their clocks clean by the likes of DU. When Ron brought it back, it was still plausible, not now unless we really come out this year, [REDACTED by Moderator]. Last edited by PhoenixRising2 (5/29/2020 3:35 pm) Agreed Duq81, going to Penn state would be a great add and probably the most realistic option of another P5 opponent. I'm pretty sure I saw a while ago that the MWC/A10 challenge game is in Wyoming. Wyoming was a dreadful 271 NET last year. That's quad 4, even on the road. Hopefully they can improve enough for it to become a quad 3 game. Obviously, this is a must win game. As if that wasn't bad enough, this Maryland tournament has stuck us with a game vs the only MWC team worse than Wyoming. San Jose St was 287 NET last year. Would love to add Nitwits to the schedule. Not only relish the opportunity to beat that scumbag Ferry but also feel like last time we played them refs fixed the end. Never seen a 1 point game turn into a 5 point advantage with a 4.5 point spread. Ref definitely had money on the game. NAPA: not sure I’d agree that PSU’s bbteam is inferior to us. Though I’m sure the dislike is there because of Ferry. NAPA: not sure I’d agree that PSU’s bbteam is inferior to us. Though I’m sure the dislike is there because of Ferry. Agree. Penn St. was significantly better than us last year, and while they lose their best player, there's still quite a bit of experienced talent on that team. duq81, thanks for digging; really good info. I think the other issue is that the Dukes have not participated in or have been invited to prestigious 8 team tourneys played at neutral sites. When I say prestigious, I would classify that as having a field with one or more top 100 teams. I feel we need to be an NCAA tournament team to garner an invite to these higher profile tournaments. La Salle has been in, off the top of my head, Charleston and Wooden Legacy (Anaheim). Much like us, they don’t have a large fan following or one known to “travel.” Unlike us, they danced and went to the Sweet 16 in 2013. Last edited by Brian (5/29/2020 12:36 pm) Brian, I was just about to respond to your original post, specifically mentioning La Salle. How did they get invited to the Grand Cayman tourney with Kansas State Wildcats (Big 12), Miami (Fla.) Hurricanes (ACC), Nevada Wolf Pack (MW), Ole Miss Rebels (SEC), Oregon State Beavers (Pac-12), UNI Panthers (MVC), and WKU Hilltoppers (C-USA)? They are going to get 2 good or maybe 3 good opponents out of this tourney. Phoenix, we can add the Cayman Islands to the list. Forgot about that one. I remember reading on Twitter (grain of salt) it wasn’t well run the first year Richmond was in it, but it seems to be picking up in stature. I use this as a guide as to the tournaments out there and conference tie ins, etc Few more things: NAPA: not sure I’d agree that PSU’s bbteam is inferior to us. Though I’m sure the dislike is there because of Ferry. I would agree with you about this year, but it still should be looked at in the long run. Both teams have been willing to play in the past. Agreed Duq81, going to Penn state would be a great add and probably the most realistic option of another P5 opponent. I'm pretty sure I saw a while ago that the MWC/A10 challenge game is in Wyoming. It is a new world. Penn State may duck us like Pitt. Two teams now inferior to us, yet can not risk getting their clocks clean by the likes of DU. When Ron brought it back, it was still plausible, not now unless we really come out this year,[REDACTED by Moderator] Dude, [REDACTED by Moderator] ok moderators, warn us both... Last edited by PhoenixRising2 (5/29/2020 3:38 pm) duq81, thanks for digging; really good info. I think the other issue is that the Dukes have not participated in or have been invited to prestigious 8 team tourneys played at neutral sites. When I say prestigious, I would classify that as having a field with one or more top 100 teams. Indeed, those events are our window to get a shot at high level teams, and on a neutral court to boot. That event we're scheduled for this coming year was obviously set up for Maryland's benefit. Two cupcakes, and a respectable opponent, which is us. Playing a Big 10 schedule, they can afford some cupcakes on the schedule. Those two games don't do much to help us (better win both). Add Wyoming to those, and that's a serious drag on our sos. Agreed Duq81, going to Penn state would be a great add and probably the most realistic option of another P5 opponent. I'm pretty sure I saw a while ago that the MWC/A10 challenge game is in Wyoming. It is a new world. Penn State may duck us like Pitt. Two teams now inferior to us, yet can not risk getting their clocks clean by the likes of DU. When Ron brought it back, it was still plausible, not now unless we really come out this year, [REDACTED by Moderator]. We're getting a little too cocky here, talking about teams that usually beat us handily, being inferior to us, based on one incomplete season. I love the optimism too, but let's just take a breath. Agreed Duq81, going to Penn state would be a great add and probably the most realistic option of another P5 opponent. I'm pretty sure I saw a while ago that the MWC/A10 challenge game is in Wyoming. It is a new world. Penn State may duck us like Pitt. Two teams now inferior to us, yet can not risk getting their clocks clean by the likes of DU. When Ron brought it back, it was still plausible, not now unless we really come out this year, [REDACTED by Moderator]. We're getting a little too cocky here, talking about teams that usually beat us handily, being inferior to us, based on one incomplete season. I love the optimism too, but let's just take a breath. I have to agree with you Tejas. Pitt is no juggernaut, and we're certainly more than capable of beating them, but they've improved just like we have, and they're definitely good enough to send us home unhappy. Pitt lost to Nichols last year, but they also beat Florida St. Sounds an awful lot like some team we know that won at VCU, but lost at home to GW. As for Penn St., I see them a lot like I see Dayton. They lost their star player, but still have a good bit of talent. It's tough to predict how good they'll be, but they won't be awful.
CONGRATULATIONS COACH DRU JOYCE III
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NapaDuke wrote:
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duq81 wrote:NapaDuke wrote:
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BluffHunter wrote:
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BluffHunter wrote:
California Baptist was 200 NET. That's 3 quad 4 games. Egad! I hope we don't schedule any more. We'd actually be better off if we could just leave those dates blank instead of playing those 3 games.
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Besides the point going to state college would be a good addition. Short bus trip and Nitwits are losing their best player in Stevens.
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FAM wrote:
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I could be wrong, but I believe that the last one of these that the Dukes participated in was the Great Alaskan Shootout in November 1987. There was the NABC Classic in 2004, but that was played at New Mexico (who was a Top 50 team). Other than these, there were a number on non traditional tourneys to get an away game vs. a P5 school; or some 8 team fields with weak opposition.
Our fellow A-10 schools are getting into these types of tourneys; it's an area that Harper/Dambrot will need to improve.
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I’d love to see the Dukes in one of these events and hopefully even be able to enjoy the event in person. I’m not expecting Maui nor even the highly lucrative Battle for Atlantis; but Charleston, Myrtle Beach, Orange County or Orlando would work. Diamond Head Classic in Honolulu at Christmas invited Akron to play in 2017 (KD’s first year here at DU) and A10 teams partake in that as well. The program needs to get to the dance to get in these tournaments, in my opinion.
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You would think being 7-8 years out from the 2013 Sweet 16 run and no other postseason of note that La Salle being in the A10 rotation of teams invited would’ve expired by now.
Unfortunately for us, we can’t cite postseason track record nor guarantee that we’ll bring a big contingent of fans. The teams for the next season’s field are usually announced as soon as the present tournament ends. Even if we dance in 2021, we’d be looking at fall of 2022 to get in one of those mentioned tournaments based on name brand/recent success.
Heck, I look at these almost like a college football fan might look at what bowl they want invited to and Maryland was one of the few P5 teams not slated for a tournament in 2020 which is why I think this event both schools are a part of came together.
With the uncertainty of the times we live in, who knows what we’ll become of these events. Wooden Legacy is now reduced to a 4 team event. Basketball is still a cheap TV production compared to other sports, so I think they’ll exist but never know.
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Quick glance, Bona is in a “mid major” influenced tourney in the Virgin Islands. Their tourney year with Adams/Mobley they played in the 4 team tournament near Destin, FL and beat Maryland and lost to TCU. Despite 2 NCAAs and an NIT under Schmidt, they aren’t really getting in these tournaments either.
- the link I posted, I had not looked at in a long while and see that the MGM Event in Vegas has filled their two teams. That was one I was hoping for us as two spots stood vacant throughout the season. Colorado State and San Francisco filled the two spots. Duquesne in place of USF or CSU would’ve been nice as a crack at one of our hopefully both Louisville and/or Arkansas would’ve been nice.
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NapaDuke wrote:BluffHunter wrote:
WE ARE CREEPING UP TO THE SECOND FLOOR....
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PhoenixRising2 wrote:
I could be wrong, but I believe that the last one of these that the Dukes participated in was the Great Alaskan Shootout in November 1987. There was the NABC Classic in 2004, but that was played at New Mexico (who was a Top 50 team). Other than these, there were a number on non traditional tourneys to get an away game vs. a P5 school; or some 8 team fields with weak opposition. With at Maryland a likely loss, it really puts pressure on us to get those quality wins vs Furman, Belmont, and maybe ETSU as well. At Marshall is probably a must win as well if we don't want to have to win 15 games in the A10, and still need wins in Brooklyn to get an at large bid. I think anything less than 11-2 ooc will probably leave us needing to win in Brooklyn to get in.
Our fellow A-10 schools are getting into these types of tourneys; it's an area that Harper/Dambrot will need to improve.
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NapaDuke wrote:BluffHunter wrote:
Vicimus Atlanticum decem
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Tejas_Duke wrote:NapaDuke wrote:BluffHunter wrote:
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