For anyone who saw the Greentree and Montour games, the article captures the sense of relevance  the Dukes players took to the games-though be it they were "just" summer league games. The article also gives one the idea of the seriousness the new players will take into this season. Nice job.

Honestly and brutally, the comparison is day and night.  Saunders could not use his right hand.  He always went left when at the elbow or at the box.  Saunders thought he could shoot-he couldn't.  He couldn't hit the fade away with any consistency.  Soko can use either hand and from any point on the floor.  Soko can light it up from 3-point range on in and can hit the fade away consistently. Those are the major differences I see.  Body wise and mindset wise these are my opinions.  They are at par with their defensive skills and rebounding.  They just do things differently.  Saunders used his slash abilities.  Soko uses his brute force and strength abilities.  They are at par with their foot speed and quickness.  Both get up and down the floor post haste.  Both have major, major heart.  Both are fiercely competitive. If Saunders was a 4 star high school athlete and hooper, I'd rate Soko a 4.5 star athlete and hooper.  Body wise Saunders is lean and mean.  Soko is just plain mean. Saunders is and was a gentleman on the floor.  Soko is a gentlemanly "give-no-quarter-ask -for-no quarter" bad-ass.  Saunders always looked serious.  Soko has the look of a smiling assasin.  If I had my choice for my team, I would take Soko.  And let me end this by saying I thought Damien Saunders was one of the finest and best kid/athlete/student/school representative to ever wear a Duquesne uniform.  And I go back to 1955 watching the Dukes!

Last edited by grammudder (7/29/2013 2:05 pm)

grammudder wrote:

Honestly and brutally, the comparison is day and night.  Saunders could not use his right hand.  He always went left when at the elbow or at the box.  Saunders thought he could shoot-he couldn't.  He couldn't hit the fade away with any consistency.  Soko can use either hand and from any point on the floor.  Soko can light it up from 3-point range on in and can hit the fade away consistently. Those are the major differences I see.  Body wise and mindset wise these are my opinions.  They are at par with their defensive skills and rebounding.  They just do things differently.  Saunders used his slash abilities.  Soko uses his brute force and strength abilities.  They are at par with their foot speed and quickness.  Both get up and down the floor post haste.  Both have major, major heart.  Both are fiercely competitive. If Saunders was a 4 star high school athlete and hooper, I'd rate Soko a 4.5 star athlete and hooper.  Body wise Saunders is lean and mean.  Soko is just plain mean. Saunders is and was a gentleman on the floor.  Soko is a gentlemanly "give-no-quarter-ask -for-no quarter" bad-ass.  Saunders always looked serious.  Soko has the look of a smiling assasin.  If I had my choice for my team, I would take Soko.  And let me end this by saying I thought Damien Saunders was one of the finest and best kid/athlete/student/school representative to ever wear a Duquesne uniform.  And I go back to 1955 watching the Dukes!

I'll echo your thoughts on Soko. He looks better offensively in every single facet and while I'll reserve final judgement till actual games are played, it might not even be close in some categorie. Rebounding I would say Soko could match what Damian did his sophomore year. Defensively though, it's hard to not give the edge to Damian until Soko proves otherwise. Damian won two conferene D-POY and came by them honestly. I'm not so sure Ovie is that kind of defender.

I also think Ovie will provide the kind of vocal leadership the Dukes have been lacking since A-Jax departed.

Didn't Saunders finish top 5 all time in various categories? He was pretty productive over his 4 year career on the bluff.obviously the victors in a war get to rewrite history. I hope Sokol is as good as D Saunders but lets not forget how special he & Clark were to the Dukes .Not being negative but they were  fun to watch!

Ironduke81 wrote:

Didn't Saunders finish top 5 all time in various categories? He was pretty productive over his 4 year career on the bluff.obviously the victors in a war get to rewrite history. I hope Sokol is as good as D Saunders but lets not forget how special he & Clark were to the Dukes .Not being negative but they were  fun to watch!

Saunders ended his career 11th in career scoring and 3rd in rebounding and tops in both steals and blocks. He's easily the best defensive player we've seen since I've been around the program. I'm sure some people could take it back even further.

That said, Damian was a very good but not great offensive player. Soko is def a better FT shooter and will probably shoot better from three. I think he has the potential to be a better all around playmaker and a stronger finisher.

He and Clark were absolutely special and I would argue that Saunders is among the 10 greatest Dukes of all time or pretty close to it. However, that's based a lot more on what he did defensively than what he did offensively.

No idea what you're talking about revise history. What would be the point of that?

Last edited by steve19981 (7/30/2013 3:09 pm)

You are spot on in your thinking and analysis E.D. Great comparison in combining the attributes of two of the better players in Duquesne history.

Looks to me like Coach Ferry will have a luxury no previous coaches since Carroll had at the inside spots.  My instincts tell me Coach will use three "bigs" and by that I mean three guys taller than 6'7" at the same time to allow for the best versatility at the 3, 4 and 5 inside spots.  I can see and can accept some combo of, for sure, Soko with any two among Robinson, Watkins, McKoy or Gill with him.  (I'm keeping Coach to his word that Darius Lewis will be red-shirted.)  All five of them can motor, or at least have the reputation of being able to motor, up and down the court.  Not having seen or being able to evaluate the strengths of Watkins and McKoy, any firm conviction of who is prime time and who will pair with Soko is purely speculative at this juncture.  Plus, there can always be a September surprise. Needless to say my posts have a ring of anticipation and hope to them.

Not from any school sources, but I understand physically, Mason is fine.  No news on the NCAA waiver request.  People who know more than me suggest that he has at least a 50-50 chance of success because of the unique nature of his required food regime.

Anyone who thinks Damian Saunders was one of the 10 best players in Duquesne history needs to get a copy of a media guide and review the all time roster.
 

duq81 wrote:

VBC wrote:

Anyone who thinks Damian Saunders was one of the 10 best players in Duquesne history needs to get a copy of a media guide and review the all time roster.
 

Rating players by how they played in thier era, and how they did at DU, as opposed to how they would do now, or what they did later, I would rate the following clearly above Damian

Moe Becker
Paul Birch
Chuck Cooper
Dick Ricketts
Jim Tucker
Si Green
Willie Somerset
Mickey Davis
Norm Nixon
Derrick Alston

The next group would be players that I would put at the same level as Damian.
I won't go back beyond the mid 60's for this list.
Denny Cuff
Jarrett Durham
Billy Zopf
Lionel Billingy
Mike Barr
Bruce Atkins
BB Flenory
Rick Suder
Tom Pipkins
Wayne Smith
Aaron Jackson

I didn't include any one year guys like Mark Stevenson. It can be tough to compare based on stats. Some guys, like Wayne Smith, were great players on horrible teams, while others, like Jim Tucker, were great players who were overshadowed by superstar teamates.

Opinions are personal and worthy of respect. As such, while I respect your opinion, I offer an opinion of my own. In my opinion many of the names in the same group as Damien were head and shoulders better players than Damien. I loved Damien during his career here at the bluff and do feel he was an outstanding player, but he could never consistantly carry a team or dominate game after game like some of the other names on that list. In my opinion, the elevator does not stop on that floor.
 

81,

I didn't go back beyond the Cooper and Tucker with the list. The only thing I can go on is numbers so when there aren't numbers for guys like Becker and Birch, well, I'll just have to take your word on it as I'm sure you took someone else's word. I didn't consider Davis because he only played two years. I can see the argument for him though. Removing those three, I have Billingy, Atkins and Saunders rounding out my top 10. Saunders was the best defender in the conference and best all around player in the city (IMO) for two years. He didn't get any national recognition because he never danced.  Still taking the two older players into consideration, I probably have to push Saunders off.