VBC wrote:

James Hargrove and Wojo are both certainly worthy of consideration as top 50 all time Dukes.  I had thought about Wojo but had forgotten about James. 

James being a two year player after a transfer gives me pause, though.  I had also considered Doug Arnold but used his 2 years as a reason to disqualify him.  James had a reputation as being a better teammate than Doug did so maybe he (or Jack) should be in the top 50.  If so, who should be bumped off the list?

 I enjoyed Hargrove for his competitiveness and toughness; but seriously folks; he wasn't even a starter for most of his two years on the Bluff.  He really doesn't belong in the top fifty all-time.  Please consider that the guys who played the 50's to the mid 70's were usually playing on very good -to-great teams that had prominence nationally.  The talent level was much greater that what we have seen in the last 25 years, therefore, I would submit that the players from that era deserve greater recognition on any top 50 list.

Hargrove didn't start in his first year because Petrarca and Adams (both 4-year starters and All-A-10  freshman team) were in the backcourt and were seniors. Hargrove lead the team in scoring anyway.

The next year, Hargrove lead the scoring again and averaged over 20 ppg , and played some great D both years.

So that's the case for Hargrove as  top-50 Duke. How many Dukes led the team in scoring in consecutive years?

 

VBC wrote:

levon1975 wrote:

VBC wrote:

James Hargrove and Wojo are both certainly worthy of consideration as top 50 all time Dukes.  I had thought about Wojo but had forgotten about James. 

James being a two year player after a transfer gives me pause, though.  I had also considered Doug Arnold but used his 2 years as a reason to disqualify him.  James had a reputation as being a better teammate than Doug did so maybe he (or Jack) should be in the top 50.  If so, who should be bumped off the list?

 I enjoyed Hargrove for his competitiveness and toughness; but seriously folks; he wasn't even a starter for most of his two years on the Bluff.  He really doesn't belong in the top fifty all-time.  Please consider that the guys who played the 50's to the mid 70's were usually playing on very good -to-great teams that had prominence nationally.  The talent level was much greater that what we have seen in the last 25 years, therefore, I would submit that the players from that era deserve greater recognition on any top 50 list.

 
Good point.  Who do you think should replace him?  Also, I did put one player in the top 50 who probably doesn't belong and nobody seems to have noticed so far.

One thing I did consider about where to place Damian Saunders was asking myself what his role would have been in the class of 1971.  I have to believe he'd have been a sixth man if he happened to have been at Duquesne at that time.  The talent level was that high in those days and similarly in the 50s.

I noticed, but he still has two years remaining, so his legacy is still to be written!  But even though I am biased, the top fifty list might be a bit of a reach.

As far as the 1971 team, Saunders may have started in place of Darnell Robuck, but in Reds half court offense he may have not.
James Hargrove was a strong, skinny guard and I still remember his twisting fast break layup s and dunks. JC was playing a lot of guys then so starting was not as important then.

VBC wrote:

I took a look at a media guide and that has inspired me to do some editing to the 21-50 list.  I've added players who either played in the NBA or were drafted.  That has bumped some guys off, but being a pro or a draftee has to mean something no matter what the era.  Guys who were able to compete for a spot at the highest level of the sport have to be ahead of someone of more recent vintage when the program was at its lowest.  So here's the latest revision.

B.B. Flenory
Oscar Jackson
Damian Saunders
Wayne Smith
Joey Myers
Mickey Winograd
Mike Rice
Fletcher Johnson
Rick Suder
Red Manning
Bruce Atkins
Aaron Jackson
Emmett Sellers
Ron Guziak
Effrem Whitehead
Bob Slobodnik
Denny Cuff
Stan Noszska
Walt Miller
Ned Twyman
Ed Melvin
Ed Dahler
Gary Major
Rueben Montanez
Clyde Arnold
Al Bailey
Paul Benec
Don McLane
Jim Kennedy
Hal Cerra

Not top 50, but still real good.
Bryant McAllister
Tom Pipkins
Mark Stevenson
John Moore
James Hargrove
Christian Johnston
Doug Arnold
Jack Wojdowski

Tom Pipkins is way too high in points not to be on my top 50. What can be tough is ranking someone like Joey Myers. He really didn't do much his first three years, while playing under Mike Rice, but really blossomed his senior year under Jim Satalin, who was a much better x and o's guy than Rice. Also, with regard to the pros, tall guys will always get a look before guys 6'6" and under, even if the short guy is a better player. Was Joey really a better player than Rick Suder, or is 6'9" just always going to win out over 6'4" or so?

ElDuque wrote:

Rick Suder was one of the best shooters I've ever seen at Duquesne. If I could pull guys out of time and put together a roster, Suder would be on my time. No disrespect to Joey Myers, but he would not.

Agree 100%!

BMac may have been a nice fellow, but I don't see him in the top 50.