CityDuke wrote:

I must be in the minority here, but personally I’m struggling to find the issue in these comments. How can Duquesne compete with Dayton when it comes to a particular recruit? You can be the best recruiter/salesman in the world but their tradition and fanbase are incomparable to what we have. Seems like sensible self-awareness and usage of time, energy, and resources to me.

This has nothing to do with our ability to compete with them on the court.

Well, if you saw the game on Saturday "City Duke"  you will may now understand that recruiting has EVERYTHING  to do with competing on the court!  Furthermore, we don't necessarily expect Duquesne to out-recruit Dayton for the exact players that they have a good chance of signing; but Dayton can't sign everyone that can play at this level!  If you can't get a particular guy because he's leaning to Dayton, then look elsewhere, but you need to find quality A-10 level players somehow, some way and get them to Duquesne in order to expect to compete on the court with the likes of Dayton, VCU, StL, Davidson, Richmond etc.  Let's forget about Dayton or now, and look at Richmond who is a smaller school than Duquesne located in a large city and competing directly with VCU a state institution in the same city that is larger, has been more successful lately, and is much more recognizable on the national scale.    Richmond has been able to maintain a decent program, that can compete nationally with most any program.  They are able to attract players that fit into the system taught by Chris Mooney; which is a motion, Princeton type of offense.  I don't think Richmond is getting a lot of 4-star recruits, but they recruit players that are talented enough to compete at the A-10 level within the Mooney system.  My point is that in my opinion Duquesne may not be able to go head to head with other schools for 4-star players, but if it had a "system" similar to Richmond, and Davidson, perhaps it could attract players who could play that system and be consistently competitive with teams that are able to recruit the 4-star guys.  As you find some semblance of consistency, and modest success to sell to recruits, you may actually be able to steal a few of those guys with the higher talent levels, who are smart enough to know that learning to play a "team" oriented game only makes you more attractive to scouts at the next level. So, in my opinion, Duquesne's best chance at competing to to find a young "system" coach who has experience teaching those concepts and institute that kind of program at Duquesne.  Look at the Ivy League or Patriot League for a guy looking to take a shot on a more competitive stage.  

Last edited by levon1975 (1/17/2022 4:15 pm)

phil95 wrote:

levon1975 wrote:

CityDuke wrote:

I must be in the minority here, but personally I’m struggling to find the issue in these comments. How can Duquesne compete with Dayton when it comes to a particular recruit? You can be the best recruiter/salesman in the world but their tradition and fanbase are incomparable to what we have. Seems like sensible self-awareness and usage of time, energy, and resources to me.

This has nothing to do with our ability to compete with them on the court.

Well, if you saw the game on Saturday "City Duke"  you will may now understand that recruiting has EVERYTHING  to do with competing on the court!  Furthermore, we don't necessarily expect Duquesne to out-recruit Dayton for the exact players that they have a good chance of signing; but they can't sign everyone that can play at this level!  If you can't get a particular guy because he's leaning to Dayton, then look elsewhere, but you need to find quality A-10 level players somehow, some way and get them to Duquesne in order to expect to compete on the court with the likes of Dayton, VCU, StL, Davidson, Richmond etc.  Let's forget about Dayton or now, and look at Richmond who is a smaller school than Duquesne located in a large city and competing directly with VCU a state institution in the same city that is larger, has been more successful lately, and is much more recognizable on the national scale.    Richmond has been able to maintain a decent program, that can compete nationally with most any program.  They are able to attract players that fit into the system taught by Chris Mooney; which is a motion, Princeton type of offense.  I don't think Richmond is getting a lot of 4-star recruits, but they recruit players that are talented enough to compete at the A-10 level within the Mooney system.  My point is that in my opinion Duquesne may not be able to go head to head with other schools for 4-star players, but if it had a "system" similar to Richmond, and Davidson, perhaps it could attract players who could play that system and be consistently competitive with teams that are able to recruit the 4-star guys.  As you find some semblance of consistency, and modest success to sell to recruits, you may actually be able to steal a few of those guys with the higher talent levels, who are smart enough to know that learning to play a "team" oriented game only makes you more attractive to scouts at the next level. So, in my opinion, Duquesne's best chance at competing to to find a young "system" coach who has experience teaching those concepts and institute that kind of program at Duquesne.  Look at the Ivy League or Patriot League for a guy looking to take a shot on a more competitive stage.  

This post addresses this specific recruiting topic very well. The quality of targets & signings must improve incrementally to get to the level of program desired.

I also think it is important to recognize the quality job KD & crew have done shaking the trees & working the portal to bring in legit A-10 players. MHughes, Frank Hughes, TDM, Weathers, Sin, Steele, Tre, Easley, Primo, Ayers, JJ, Acuff, Rotroff, Okani, Barba, Maceo, Andre Harris, EW, Amari Kelly, Chad Baker, & Hima were all, to some extent, either excellent under the radar prospects that belong solidly in the A-10 or were offered by stronger programs than DU. That is an impressive haul.

Accomplishing what levon1975 so competently described, continuing to identify/sign undervalued recruits, & keeping a large percentage of signees from both groups in the program for 2-4 years are probably the most important factors in getting this program to a point that it consistently contends for league championships & meaningful post season play. This is true regardless of the coaching staff leading the program.

I think that KD deserves next year to see if what was planted this year bears fruit. However, as a condition of employment & a precursor to any discussion of any extension offer, he must be given the financial resources to hire a big-time recruiter with a proven track record & an equally qualified "offensive coordinator". This will mean breaking up the current staff & if KD isn't willing, he will have only next season to right the ship.

Phil, I don't mind giving the coaches credit especially for the initial haul of transfers including M. Hughes, Weathers, TDM etc. but as I've stated before, there was no follow-up in the next few years to continue to add talent, depth and skill to the original group of guys.  There was a series of failed recruits for three years to follow, with only Sin Carry and EW (a great find) making contributions and they both transferred!  Until Steele came in for one year, there were far too many empty recruiting gambles by this staff.   I don't want to attack any players by name, but some of the guys you list as A-10 players haven't proven that to be true.   
 

Last edited by levon1975 (1/18/2022 12:25 pm)

wharfrat58 wrote:

It's really sad that in 5 years the best 2 players he recruited were recruited to play at Akron, and he convinced them to follow him to DU. Granted that the transfer portal makes it difficult, but arguably he is still recruiting MAC talent.

I think EW was his best recruit - did he recruit him to play at Akron?  I can't remember the years anymore.  either way, your point is well taken.

I think Primo and JJ have the stuff to be better than the rest though. 

Used to be, a player a had a couple years before the fans and coaches decided he didn't have it.  Now, with the portal, a freshman has to perform right out of the gates or face being recruited over.  Take Tyson Acuff for example.  He was Mr. Basketball in Detroit right?  Came in as a freshman behind Sin/Lamar/TDM and because he didn't immediately light it up as an wunderkind he never got the chance to start.  So KD recruits 2 new guards who must have looked great in the early practice sessions because they immediately get more PT than Acuff (well Primo anyway but JJ is trending in that direction.)  I believe all Acuff needs is minutes and we will see him blossom but that can't happen.  If KD doesn't play JJ and Primo they likely transfer out where Acuff doesn't have enough on tape to attract other schools.  Had Acuff came in the door last season strong he'd be starting today but now, who knows what will become of him.  10 years ago he would have slowly grown into a fine possibly great player.  those days are over.