MrBrightside wrote:

Well we've come full circle again, it's back to the dart game of throwing at RE, GA, Dr. D or JF depending on who is doing the throwing.  Steve, I think El D has a fair point about the big men under Ron, but Ferry should get more time than 1 1/4 season's and El D the bottom feeding doesn't happen with the flip of a switch - it was definitely trending that way.  Jason Duty, c'mon, if we had to play a slow moving walk on over scholarship guys, then what does that tell you about the quality of what we were recruiting.  Steve you at least give RE credit when you give your view, and he deserves credit, but CLK your passion and defense of RE seems a bit over the top.  You guys will recall where I stand on all of that from 1 1/2 years ago, but I think the reality is if Ferry flops GA goes too and he probably realizes that and that is how it should be.  No one is more disgusted with what happened yesterday than me, and they have to win me back (my new name can be mr. bandwagon) before I show up to another game, but logic dictates that the school should evaluate after more time and that can be debated.  My guess is that JF better do something by the end of year 3 or he'll be gone to, i don't think he gets any more time after that.

Good post MrBandwagon! While I want to see substantial progress next year, Ferry will be safe until the end of year 4, and will have to be doing poorly to be fired. Robinson, Ridenhour, and Watkins will be juniors then, and it should be apparent that the team is either very good, or strongly headed that way. By his fifth year, the team needs to be at worst, a solid NIT team, and hopefully, at least on the bubble for the NCAAs. Robinson and Watkins both will need to be at least 3rd team all A10. If the big boy develops into a solid center (a big if), then this will be a very happy board.

duq81 wrote:

MrBrightside wrote:

Well we've come full circle again, it's back to the dart game of throwing at RE, GA, Dr. D or JF depending on who is doing the throwing.  Steve, I think El D has a fair point about the big men under Ron, but Ferry should get more time than 1 1/4 season's and El D the bottom feeding doesn't happen with the flip of a switch - it was definitely trending that way.  Jason Duty, c'mon, if we had to play a slow moving walk on over scholarship guys, then what does that tell you about the quality of what we were recruiting.  Steve you at least give RE credit when you give your view, and he deserves credit, but CLK your passion and defense of RE seems a bit over the top.  You guys will recall where I stand on all of that from 1 1/2 years ago, but I think the reality is if Ferry flops GA goes too and he probably realizes that and that is how it should be.  No one is more disgusted with what happened yesterday than me, and they have to win me back (my new name can be mr. bandwagon) before I show up to another game, but logic dictates that the school should evaluate after more time and that can be debated.  My guess is that JF better do something by the end of year 3 or he'll be gone to, i don't think he gets any more time after that.

Good post MrBandwagon! While I want to see substantial progress next year, Ferry will be safe until the end of year 4, and will have to be doing poorly to be fired. Robinson, Ridenhour, and Watkins will be juniors then, and it should be apparent that the team is either very good, or strongly headed that way. By his fifth year, the team needs to be at worst, a solid NIT team, and hopefully, at least on the bubble for the NCAAs. Robinson and Watkins both will need to be at least 3rd team all A10. If the big boy develops into a solid center (a big if), then this will be a very happy board.

Ditto, good post.

Now Steve & Mr. Brightside have to trash Jason Duty! Unfortunately when he began to get time I questioned Ron but as I watched this kid he was athletic & smart.Yeah I was an assh*** but admit my mistake. This kid is the definition of a student athlete 4.0 student walkon hard work great story! Jason will be a star in whatever career move he decides. 

Ironduke81 wrote:

Now Steve & Mr. Brightside have to trash Jason Duty! Unfortunately when he began to get time I questioned Ron but as I watched this kid he was athletic & smart.Yeah I was an assh*** but admit my mistake. This kid is the definition of a student athlete 4.0 student walkon hard work great story! Jason will be a star in whatever career move he decides. 

I didn't and would never trash Duty.

Last edited by steve19981 (12/15/2013 8:52 pm)

GA will jump ship before being fired.  If we lose 20 again, he will leave.

I just didn't think that we would be as upset, depressed, and angry again so soon as we were before RE won some games.  This is not an RE post but HERE WE GO again post.  We were actually competitive against Pitt for a while.  But after that we have been terrible, getting worse instead of better.  I remember when RE was doing poorly he came up with running 5 in every few minutes.  Not saying we need to do that but what Ferry is doing isn't working.

steve19981 wrote:

Ironduke81 wrote:

Now Steve & Mr. Brightside have to trash Jason Duty! Unfortunately when he began to get time I questioned Ron but as I watched this kid he was athletic & smart.Yeah I was an assh*** but admit my mistake. This kid is the definition of a student athlete 4.0 student walkon hard work great story! Jason will be a star in whatever career move he decides. 

I didn't and would never trash Duty.

Steve please define ditto. You did you agreed with the thread.

I'd like to give some props to all who have posted in this thread. The discussion has been spirited, as this is a tough time to be a Dukes fan, but all have been able to express their point of view, without the discussion deteriorating into name calling. This is the way it should be. Kudos!

CLK wrote:

2004–2005 La Salle 10–19 5–11 6th (West) 
2005–2006 La Salle 18–10 10–6 T–3rd 
2006–2007 La Salle 10–20 3–13 14th 
2007–2008 La Salle 15–17 8–8 T–7th 
2008–2009 La Salle 18–13 9–7 T–5th 
2009–2010 La Salle 12–18 4–12 13th 
2010–2011 La Salle 15–18 6–10 10th 
2011–2012 La Salle 21–13 9–7 6th NIT First Round
2012–2013 La Salle 24–10 11–5 T–3rd

steve19981 wrote:

I think a big difference between Everhart and Dr G is that Dr G had one NCAA cali
ber team and they went to the Sweet 16 even if it was in year 9. Everhart had one NCAA caliber team that went to the second round of the CBI in year 5. 

This comment is not true.  Dr. G's second year team finished 3rd and expectations were high for the following year (just as they were after Ron's third year).  Then the wheels fell off.   I would contend that the difference was the LaSalle's AD had the fortitude not to go along with those calling for his head and concluding he would never make it to the NCAA.  He gave him more time. 



 

Truthfully, I think what saved Dr. G was signing Aaric Murray. Murray was one of the highest rated players in the country. To put it in perspective, I don't think Duquesne has signed a player that highly rated since Sihugo Green. When you sign a guy like that, you get more time. Of course he ended up being a bust. We also don't know what Dr. g's contract situation was. He won 18 games in his fifth year, so he may have gotten an extension that protected him when they struggled the next two years. Ron wouldn't have been fired if he had more time left on his contract. That's why the collapse in 2011 was so crucial, as it prevented him from getting another extension, which would have made firing him impossible.

81' my point was the path to the NCAA for a turnaround coach is rarely linear.  For those that do turn it around the path usually rocky. Those who argue that Ron's firing was justifed do so with the conclusion that he would never have gotten DU to the NCAA.  The fact that he took perhaps the worst team in DU history to within one game of the NCAA, the fact that he did what no coach in the 30 years prior could even come close to doing in having four consecutive winning season does not carry any weight in their argument that he was the wrong guy to get us to the NCAA.  Their argument is speculative but stated as if it were fact.  How many people at LIU would have thought Ferry was the right guy?  I put Jim Ferry's record below not to bash him (I know some would try to spin it like I was) but to point out that in seven of his first 8 season he had a losing record and wasn't until year 9 that he made it to the NCAA.  

2002–2003 Long Island 9–19 7–11 t-8th 
2003–2004 Long Island 8–19 4–14 11th 
2004–2005 Long Island 14–15 10–8 4th 
2005–2006 Long Island 12–16 9–9 6th 
2006–2007 Long Island 10–19 6–12 10th 
2007–2008 Long Island 15–15 7–11 7th 
2008–2009 Long Island 16–14 12–6 t-2nd 
2009–2010 Long Island 14–17 11–7 4th 
2010–2011 Long Island 27–6 16–2 1st NCAA 2nd Round
2011–2012 Long Island 25–9 16–2 1st NCAA 2nd Round

Personally I believe that Amodio has set this Program back by not giving Ron more time and has severly fracture the fan base. Moreover, based on what I have seen to date from Ferry if he can do it it will take several years and better recruiting.  The problem is he does not have 9 years, or 6 years to get it done.  Based on the reactions after the RMU game if he does not turn things around this season and finish better than he did last year to provide hope to the dwindling fan base there may not be many left to care.

duq81 wrote:

ElDuque wrote:

duq81, if Ferry is here to take us to the next level, why is he being held to a lesser standard than Everhart in year 2? He's starting a fifth year senior, two juniors, and two sophomores who played the most minutes on the team last year. Watkins turned the ball over once on Saturday and never saw the court again. Robinson may or not play this year, but is a big unknown at this point. Lewis could be commando under his warm-ups, we'll never know. But getting back to my question, why are we not setting expectations higher? 

Simple, our outlooks are different. While It would be nice to see the team win some games now, I really don't give a damn about winning 12 or 14 or 16 games this year. My goal is to at worst, be sitting in front of my tv on Selection Sunday, and having a reasonable expectation of hearing the name Duquesne called. If the best route to that would be to put a lineup of Watkins, Robinson, McCoy, Mason, and Ridenhour out there, and take our lumps now, I'd support that 100%. I don't care about the CBI, and only care about the NIT as a stepping stone. The goal is the NCAA's, nothing less will satisfy me after 40 years. I don't want to see Ferry make a single move with the goal of winning a few games this year, if those moves might retard our progress towards two years from now. I don't want to see Jerry Jones starting. He's not going to make a major difference, and will be taking up minutes that can go to someone who will be here next year, and further down the road. I'd rather see Lewis get some minutes. Too many on this board have low expectations, guys complaining about playing at the Consol and such. I want us to reach a point where nearly all of our games are at the Consol, because the demand is so great. Stop thinking small! I'm not here to defend Ferry, as he's doing a lot of things I don't like, but as for the senior, and two juniors, all are new players, so let's not act like he's running some 3 or 4 year starters out there.

Since when is wanting to win thinking small? You actually have to start somewhere. If Ferry keeps throwing the same guys on the floor in the same rotation every night, doing the same things we've been doing, when exactly do you think this will turn around? The answer is never. I think there is more value in younger players seeing an upper classman doing the right stuff on the court and getting rewarded for it than playing guys who aren't going to get the job done.

Soko is quoted in the P-G today as saying "They were just ready for us." When is Ferry going to have a team ready for an opponent? This 10 year plan is smoke and mirrors. You're basically banking on kids who are currently 11-12 years old to take you to the promised land.

The guy he'd take minutes from is Jeremiah Jones. Do you see him taking us to the NCAAs in two years because of what he's going through now?  I think by the time he's a senior, he'll still be good for 3-4 points a game and looking like he's lost on the court.

Since we're talking about small thinking, what about the fact that the people who have supported this program for decades are so disgusted that they're ready to walk away for good? Is it bigger thinking that we should let them all walk away, while we continue to fail to attract the next generation?

 

steve19981 wrote:

I think a big difference between Everhart and Dr G is that Dr G had one NCAA cali
ber team and they went to the Sweet 16 even if it was in year 9. Everhart had one NCAA caliber team that went to the second round of the CBI in year 5. 

I actually don't think RE had an NCAA caliber team in year 5. In reality, I think the team overachieved during the 11 game streak, and that overall, Ron did a good job that year. In fact, I think Ron did a good job (as far as working with the team he had) every year he was here except for one. That one year was year 2. To me, he badly mishandled what in my opinion, was by far his most talented team. A team that had several players who are currently getting paid to play. He got a bit of a pass there, because most of us were happy to just finally have a winning season. That said, make no mistake, that team should have easily made the NIT, and the NCAA's should have been a possibility. While the 10/40 move was a stroke of genius during his first year, it was not a strategy that was going to be successful long term, for reasons that I have pointed out many times. RE thought he had reinvented the wheel, and it burned him badly.