Al, I will respectfully disagree with you. Our players have to be able to play anywhere if they are ever going to be on a national stage, and the Consol is one small step towards that. The facility adds a little prestige, and the Pens really want us there, which is why they gave us a lockerroom.

As Gene Hackman said in Hoosiers, the baskets are the same height, the floor's the same length.

I don't think any games should be played at the Consol Escalator Center either, other than the Pitt game.

The Penguins do want us there, but it's more of a political thing than an act of generosity. The city & county couldn't really afford to build the facility, so the Pens had to throw the citizenry a bone by providing locker rooms for the Dukes & Pitt.

The games at the Consol are totally devoid of any college atmosphere & I believe that hurts the Dukes, in terms of losing a real home court advantage & attracting new fans. I saw the VCU game last year & I won't go back. At least not until the Dukes ever get a big enough following to sell the place out.

I think back to the decision to build the Palumbo & leave the Civic Arena in the first place. They wanted to build a facility like St. Bonaventure, an intimate setting with the fans right on top of the action, raising a deafening ruckus & providing a real home court advantage. At its best, it would work like it did the night we upset Xavier during the Porter years.

Today, however, any time we play an opponent that would pack the Palumbo & give us such an advantage, we play the game at the Consol, just so we can attract---what?---another 1,000 fans, & thus the game is played in a facility that's more than half empty. Last year the VCU game was a dreary affair, with a jarring number of empty seats, so quiet that I could hear the players' shoes squeak on the floor even tho' I was quite a few rows up.  For those seeing their first Dukes game in person, I doubt they left thinking, wow, that was fun, let's do this again. Play that same game at the Palumbo, with a noise level rasing the roof, & regardless of the outcome the fans might have left buzzing about what a good time they had, & who knows, maybe it woulda provided a home court advantage that propelled the Dukes to a big upset (as it did in the aforementioned Xavier game) or at least kept the game close. You're just not gonna upset teams without a home court advantage or attract a following unless people have fun at the games.

The "crowd" that came to the Penn State game coulda fit in the Palumbo. Would that have created the type of noisy atmosphere that might have made up the 9-point difference? We'll never know.

Until there's enough interest in the program where we can consistently draw 10-12,000 people to the Consol, I don't think it's a good idea to play there.

That's today's sermon.

Mulder wrote:

We need to play games at Consol and we need to play more there.  Of course, the best conditions will be to play  more at Consol once we have returned to a highly competitive team. 

Consol is nothing like the arena used to be for basketball.  The arena was cold and looked like someone set up a place to play basketball in a hockey arena.  Consol doesn't and looks like it can be a great place to play college basketball. With the expansion of our campus it also now looks like it is almost on campus.  I know that the Pens looked for suggestions from people who had attended hockey games because they sent out a survey on how Consol should be set up.  I think they did a good job, though admittedly I don't know what the Duke's locker room facilities look like there (I understand they are nice).

When we built AJP we needed something to get away from the arena.  And in typical Duquesne fashion of the time it did it somewhat cheaply, with a large number of bleacher seats trying to "copy" the SBU arena based on what Satalin told them they needed to do.  I like the improved look of AJP now and hope it can get even better. 

But we need to be good enough to play big games and we need to play them at Consol.

Preach brother!!!!!

I have to agree with Officer Dribble.  I just don't think the Consol makes sense for most of our games.  We should embrace the Palumbo center for the atmosphere it provides.  Admittedly, I wish it were a little bigger, and I worry about how much the capacity might go down if they add in a lower bowl, but my dream would to have the capacity of the arena around 5000.  I think a renovated Palumbo for 95% of our games with the other 5% being played at Palumbo is a good idea.  I understand that we want to be considered "big time" but what exactly does that mean?  BCS schools are always going to think they are superior to us, and if they do come to us, of course we will have to play them at Consol.  However, A10 schools should NEVER play us at Consol as it is a disadavtange for our team.  St Joes, The Bonnies, La Salle, and others all play in a small intimiate atmosphere.  Why should they get an advantage that we won't have?  

I just think that making the Palumbo game day experience better would immensely improve things.  The new locker rooms in Palumbo look top notch, and I highly doubt our players use the Consol locker rooms for anything besides a pre-warm up before big games.  

Good post Simms as your redirect to the Richmond article points out the uphill battle I think we still have administratively/culturally at the Bluff.  Look at what Richmond is spending on renovations, $17,000,000.00!!!  That's right $17mm!!  I am not making excuses for the current state of the team, I've already addressed that, but this illustrates the uphill battle GA has had in trying to get things done.  This isn't about GA, it would be what any AD would have to fight for DU.  It is all about getting better players and that relates to the improvements the Ath. Dept. has lobbied hard for and it still isn't near enough.  Read Mooney's quote that it is all about showing "recruits" our "commitment"!  Say what you want about GA and coaching decisions, but he definitely has this part right. 

This is not intended as a knock against any of the pro AJP/anti Consol comments earlier. 

I realize that we are in a different situation than we were in 1968-1973 and it is not easy to succeed  now by comparison.  But Duquesne needs to get back to the same atmosphere/spirit it had during that time period when it played at the arena - frequently big games, often large crowds (at least often a full student section) and had competitive ranked teams.  If they do that Consol will be the place to play a large number of games including some A10 games and it will be a pit for opposing teams. 

The atmosphere at Consol is high level all the way, from the seating, video board, concessions, and from what I understand based on other comments (levon and others) team facilities.  AJP has improved (and that should continue) and we should not abandon it but to want all games played there is a step down in what we should aspire to.  And getting to Consol from campus is nothing compared to going to the arena way back when so that should not be a deterrent to students or others if things fall in to place.

And we don't have to be Pitt, Duke, UNC or a BCS type school to do that.   Men's basketball should be the premier showcase at Duquesne as it is at schools like X, Gonzaga and other similar institutions.  One way to showcase it, admittedly only after we have rebuilt the program to the point where it is regularly competitive and going to the NCAA (first and foremost) and NIT (no I don't care about the other tourneys), is to play a decent number of games at Consol. 

There are so many things this does for DU from recognition on a city, regional and national level to general promotion of the school and its attributes that it should be a no brainer to the administration, alums and other supporters.  If we don't aspire to that kind of program then there is no reason to play Div 1 basketball. 

Last edited by Mulder (12/18/2013 10:59 am)

Mulder,
    I agree with what you are saying, and I would love the day when we can play all of our games at Consol without concerns.  But let's be honest here.  Consol seats 18,000 people.  That is more than they seat at Peterson and Bryce Jordan.  That might be more than almost any college basketball arena.  Not every program plays in a huge arena to be successful.  Cameron Indoor Stadium seats about 9000 and it isn't exactly the nicest arena in the league.  

Simms wrote:

Mulder,
     Cameron Indoor Stadium seats about 9000 and it isn't exactly the nicest arena in the league.  

Yeah, but 9,000 is a lot more than what Palumbo seats. What bigtime, or even semi bigtime program plays in a gym like Palumbo? None that I can think of. No one is saying play all, or even most of our games there, but we need to play a handfull there, just for recruiting purposes. It's a big time facility, and speaks to what we once were, and what we aspire to be.

Mulder wrote:

Westender wrote:

Simms wrote:

Mulder,
    I agree with what you are saying, and I would love the day when we can play all of our games at Consol without concerns.  But let's be honest here.  Consol seats 18,000 people.  That is more than they seat at Peterson and Bryce Jordan.  That might be more than almost any college basketball arena.  Not every program plays in a huge arena to be successful.  Cameron Indoor Stadium seats about 9000 and it isn't exactly the nicest arena in the league.  

Simms - when we have played anticipating a good crowd at Consol, the upper level has been curtained off, resulting in about  10,000 seating capacity. I suspect that's what would be done if games are played there.

Simms - I was going to say the same thing Westender said so I thought I would just chime in with that.  Look, we don't have to play all games there (maybe duq81 just said that so I'm repeating everyone).  But either we want to be a big time program or we don't. 

I don't mean to knock St. Francis as I like the school and the campus but they are located in the middle of nowhere.  It would be difficult for them to be any bigger than they are now.  That should not be the case with us.  That is how I perceive the idea that the only place to play is AJP.   

Located in a big city, in a fairly decent TV market, with a history (unfortunately now long ago) where we were able to bring large crowds to a cavernous hockey arena for certain games - Notre Dame, Villanova, Maryland to name a few.   We should be the ones in demand by other leagues, not the likes of Dayton, Butler, etc.   I can't believe that if we truly were serious about growing a bigger program that could not happen now.  I'll take 9,000 at Consol with the top closed off.  Has anyone seen how they do that?  You really don't notice it. 

I don't want to support a program that aspires to be the Pittsburgh version of St. Francis (again no disrespect intended).  If that's going to happen, tell me now.  I will still support Duquesne but not a watered down program.

 
Mulder, I like the way you think and couldn't agree more. As I said in a recent post, if Xavier can do it, Duquesne should be able to do it.

You know there is something funny here!

Almost 30 years after we broke ground on the AJP in order to give the Dukes a smaller, campus based home to build the program and get us out of the Arena, here we are, having never even been really close to getting into the Big Dance and we're talking about going back to "the Arena."

The Lord has a strange sense of humor at times.

Mulder wrote:

This is not intended as a knock against any of the pro AJP/anti Consol comments earlier. 

I realize that we are in a different situation than we were in 1968-1973 and it is not easy to succeed  now by comparison.  But Duquesne needs to get back to the same atmosphere/spirit it had during that time period when it played at the arena - frequently big games, often large crowds (at least often a full student section) and had competitive ranked teams.  If they do that Consol will be the place to play a large number of games including some A10 games and it will be a pit for opposing teams. 

The atmosphere at Consol is high level all the way, from the seating, video board, concessions, and from what I understand based on other comments (levon and others) team facilities.  AJP has improved (and that should continue) and we should not abandon it but to want all games played there is a step down in what we should aspire to.  And getting to Consol from campus is nothing compared to going to the arena way back when so that should not be a deterrent to students or others if things fall in to place.

And we don't have to be Pitt, Duke, UNC or a BCS type school to do that.   Men's basketball should be the premier showcase at Duquesne as it is at schools like X, Gonzaga and other similar institutions.  One way to showcase it, admittedly only after we have rebuilt the program to the point where it is regularly competitive and going to the NCAA (first and foremost) and NIT (no I don't care about the other tourneys), is to play a decent number of games at Consol. 

There are so many things this does for DU from recognition on a city, regional and national level to general promotion of the school and its attributes that it should be a no brainer to the administration, alums and other supporters.  If we don't aspire to that kind of program then there is no reason to play Div 1 basketball. 

 Well written Mulder, I agree that should be our goal.