Welcome to SHOO-SHOO, RAH-RAH! The Duquesne Dukes Basketball Fan Message Board!
One of America's Great Message Boards - Any Inappropriate Posts Will Be Deleted!
I find it very hard to believe that the NCAA actively forces individual referees to call games in favor of Power 5 teams & there has never been one documented instance of this illegal institution-wide practice. The officials that work the power five conferences get a considerable amount more of a game fee than the mid majors. The officials for the games have no allegiance to any of these schools, they are from all over the country. So when working a game of a power 5 and mid major it is in their best interest to give 50/50 calls to the power five team. I have watched many games and over the years noticed this favoritism. In tonight game, early on the game was called fairly, so much as Nebraska had more fouls than Duquesne. That quickly evened up and switched heavily in Nebraska’s favor. I have never seen a team commit five fouls in a 1:45 at the beginning of a half like Duquesne was called for tonight, especially on their key players. Most of the calls were questionable. I seen on five occasions where the Nebraska player extended his arm on offense, and no foul was called and on two occasions a defensive foul was called. There was a play where a Duquesne player was smacked in the face, the commentators commented on it and no foul. Jimmy Clark was called for a block when the Nebraska player stepped on Jimmy’s foot and fell while being in legal guarding position. Jimmy’s T was totally ridiculous and the referee would not even explain to the coach why he called the T. Clark clearly got hit on the head. This all but ended the furious comeback the Dukes were on. There were so many more egregious calls to list them all. When refereeing crews are bad they are bad both ways, that was not evident in tonight’s game. So if the refs are bad why not bad both ways ? Why are they usually bad towards the lower conferences way ? Why if they have no affiliation with the school would the referee favor one team over another team ? Why when it comes to tournament selections NCAA or NIT it favors the power five conferences? If the answer to any of these questions is money, it still means there is a bias. The NCAA should do something about this nonsense, but they don’t!!! Last edited by Wildwood13 (11/23/2023 12:26 am) What you are referring to most certainly happens & has been documented. However there has never, to my knowledge, been an instance of the NCAA controlling the outcome of games through referee manipulation for the purpose of benefitting one conference over another. It has nothing to do with the NCAA, but there are hundreds of college refs working games every night of the season. To think that refs can’t or wouldn’t swing a game one way or another for financial benefit is a bit naive. When you consider that the high-profile NBA had documented cases of a ref or refs throwing games, it doesn’t seem outrageous to think college refs couldn’t easily control the outcome of games. Power Conference refs certainly sway games, but this was an egregious example. I hope we see these “MTE” events where power conference schools host go away. Either have those schools play a10 type teams Home and Homes or at neutral sites in a tournament. The 3 stooges or Fan Duel beneficiaries. 1. Rob Kueneman (Kueneman@northernsun.org) 2. Lewis Garrison 3. Wil Howard ( interesting point a thread exists that documents every time he is working a Kentucky basketball game the Wildcats win at a 90% rate🤔 I find it very hard to believe that the NCAA actively forces individual referees to call games in favor of Power 5 teams & there has never been one documented instance of this illegal institution-wide practice. Duquesne wins the game if evenly officiated despite the stats listed here. So in my opinion the refs were the most damaging stat. Worst homer job ever seen here. EVER It really was. It was clear the refs had an agenda. Nebraska was not going to lose in front of the home crowd in their tournament on a holiday eve. Anybody trying to defend that job is fooling themself. I’m actually proud of how the players handled it. That technical on Jimmy was as mild as I’ve seen (I don’t know what he said but I doubt he he called the ref a name or anything.) otherwise, the kids just smiled, and took every horse (profanity) ticky tack call while the same thing was happening on the other side with no calls without any histrionics. I was watching the Big 10 network telecast and it was awful that the announcers ignored this aspect and actually had the gall to complain about a ticky tack call on Nebraska late in the game when the refs were just trying to make the final stat line not look so bad I find it very hard to believe that the NCAA actively forces individual referees to call games in favor of Power 5 teams & there has never been one documented instance of this illegal institution-wide practice. Only thing I’ll say to this is, you must not have been watching the game Phil. No way too could watch that game and think that there wasn’t an agenda happening. The Dixon sequence was the most obvious. The Nebraska player drives and literally pushes Dixon back with a forearm which sent Dixon reeling. Imagine how hard you have to push a man the size of Dixon to send him reeling, then Dixon recovers to defend the shot and a foul is called on HIM! The Rozier calls were just shameful though. Just nothing happening at all and a whistle blows. At least 3 times. One of them, you could tell the thought never crossed his mind that the whistle was a foul on him. When Nebraska went on their run the Dukes just had to watch because they knew they were going to get whistled if the played any defense at all. I don’t think it was a national conspiracy, but I do know there existed an agenda last night to get the Dukes in foul trouble. There is nothing in your post that functions effectively as evidence that the NCAA is compelling referees to throw games in the direction of Power 5 teams. I find it very hard to believe that the NCAA actively forces individual referees to call games in favor of Power 5 teams & there has never been one documented instance of this illegal institution-wide practice. The officials that work the power five conferences get a considerable amount more of a game fee than the mid majors. The officials for the games have no allegiance to any of these schools, they are from all over the country. So when working a game of a power 5 and mid major it is in their best interest to give 50/50 calls to the power five team. I have watched many games and over the years noticed this favoritism. In tonight game, early on the game was called fairly, so much as Nebraska had more fouls than Duquesne. That quickly evened up and switched heavily in Nebraska’s favor. I have never seen a team commit five fouls in a 1:45 at the beginning of a half like Duquesne was called for tonight, especially on their key players. Most of the calls were questionable. I seen on five occasions where the Nebraska player extended his arm on offense, and no foul was called and on two occasions a defensive foul was called. There was a play where a Duquesne player was smacked in the face, the commentators commented on it and no foul. Jimmy Clark was called for a block when the Nebraska player stepped on Jimmy’s foot and fell while being in legal guarding position. Jimmy’s T was totally ridiculous and the referee would not even explain to the coach why he called the T. Clark clearly got hit on the head. This all but ended the furious comeback the Dukes were on. There were so many more egregious calls to list them all. When refereeing crews are bad they are bad both ways, that was not evident in tonight’s game. So if the refs are bad why not bad both ways ? Why are they usually bad towards the lower conferences way ? Why if they have no affiliation with the school would the referee favor one team over another team ? Why when it comes to tournament selections NCAA or NIT it favors the power five conferences? If the answer to any of these questions is money, it still means there is a bias. The NCAA should do something about this nonsense, but they don’t!!! I didn't watch one play. I also didn't write that there was no agenda. I find it very hard to believe that the NCAA actively forces individual referees to call games in favor of Power 5 teams & there has never been one documented instance of this illegal institution-wide practice. Only thing I’ll say to this is, you must not have been watching the game Phil. No way too could watch that game and think that there wasn’t an agenda happening. The Dixon sequence was the most obvious. The Nebraska player drives and literally pushes Dixon back with a forearm which sent Dixon reeling. Imagine how hard you have to push a man the size of Dixon to send him reeling, then Dixon recovers to defend the shot and a foul is called on HIM! The Rozier calls were just shameful though. Just nothing happening at all and a whistle blows. At least 3 times. One of them, you could tell the thought never crossed his mind that the whistle was a foul on him. When Nebraska went on their run the Dukes just had to watch because they knew they were going to get whistled if the played any defense at all. I don’t think it was a national conspiracy, but I do know there existed an agenda last night to get the Dukes in foul trouble. As others have mentioned, I was unbelievably proud of the way these Dukes handled themselves last night. When you play as hard as they play, with all that passion and emotion, it can be very easy to boil over in the face of that kind of adversity. But these Dukes didn’t waiver and even cut the deficit to 6 after all that before the officiating crew took matters back into their own hands by giving a Clark a technical instead of an and-1 free throw. My wife and I read his lips on the broadcast…”come on man.” And then Dambrot had his back and got a T of his own. I loved that. Go Dukes! Last edited by CityDuke (11/23/2023 10:42 am) Same old Dukes. Losers as always. I didn't watch one play. I also didn't write that there was no agenda. I find it very hard to believe that the NCAA actively forces individual referees to call games in favor of Power 5 teams & there has never been one documented instance of this illegal institution-wide practice. Only thing I’ll say to this is, you must not have been watching the game Phil. No way too could watch that game and think that there wasn’t an agenda happening. The Dixon sequence was the most obvious. The Nebraska player drives and literally pushes Dixon back with a forearm which sent Dixon reeling. Imagine how hard you have to push a man the size of Dixon to send him reeling, then Dixon recovers to defend the shot and a foul is called on HIM! The Rozier calls were just shameful though. Just nothing happening at all and a whistle blows. At least 3 times. One of them, you could tell the thought never crossed his mind that the whistle was a foul on him. When Nebraska went on their run the Dukes just had to watch because they knew they were going to get whistled if the played any defense at all. I don’t think it was a national conspiracy, but I do know there existed an agenda last night to get the Dukes in foul trouble. Phil , I don’t think one poster said the NCAA paid off the refs! Secondly how can you comment on a game you didn’t watch. Thirdly there has been talk for the last several years that the officials have favored the power 5 schools when playing mid majors. If referees are bad, they are bad both ways not just one way. These referees are not scheduled by Nebraska. I personally think Duquesne fans are crybabies when it comes to referees. But last night was pure thievery. The NCAA does nothing about it. So please explain yourself instead of saying it couldn’t happen. The NCAA has turned a blind eye to so many things. Example, SMU gets the death penalty while so many other schools did so much worse during the same time period. All this conference jumping is disgusting. The NCAA lets it go on. All I said is the NCAA has permitted this practice to go on and does nothing. Just like they let so much other stuff go on. My “Opinions”… Same old Dukes. Losers as always. He eats at Ritter's Dinner a lot. I think I have been the harshest critic of Dambrot and the Dukes on this board. Having stated that, this was a team that was well prepared, game plan was good, players executed well and coach behaved himself. They were playing an away game versus a half decent power five school and played well. The 15% of the game Fam is talking about is when they didn’t play well was when the referees took out two of our best players. When those players came back in, they immediately changed the complexion of the game. Until the referees did it again to the Dukes with the no call on Jimmy and then the T. This team goes three guards deep three forwards deep and two centers that are improving. That and the fact we had a game plan and executed it, I am a happy camper. The one stat, was not aware of, that the commentators brought up, is that Duquesne under Dambrot in 7 years has never won a non conference away game. Same old Dukes. Losers as always. DuqLaw95, why are you even posting on this message board if that is your take? Same old Dukes. Losers as always. DuqLaw95, why are you even posting on this message board if that is your take? Because I was foolishly hoping that this team and this season would be different. We should change the name of this board to the Duquesne Basketball excuse making thread. Every time we lose it’s on the officials. I blame the coach and players personally. The fact that no A10 teams or any other mid majors have ever beaten power 5 teams ever supports the conspiracy that refs are against smaller teams. Duques, they were Big 10 referees. They get paid by the Big 10. You think the Big 10 wants one of its teams to lose to a mid major opponent at home? 5 team fouls in the first 1:42 of the second half…this is not some big conspiracy theory. This is the college basketball landscape. We are irritated and voicing our irritation not as excuses, but because this was the worst case of this many of us have ever witnessed. This year..... I appreciate your position as well as the game score statistics BUT watching that game in regard to the calls was criminal. Do you think referee Tim Donaghy was the only referee who had bet on games. He got caught when a mobster/bookie turned him in in-order to get a favorable plea deal involving a separate criminal matter from the FBI. With legalized gambling throughout many states not that hard to have a front man or women placing the bets. Yes Jimmy Clark has to be very careful after 3 fouls but the last technical was complete BS. I did a rewind after his made basket & failed to note an F bomb other than frustration as to the lack of an obvious foul call against Nebraska. Yes Kentucky is a good basketball program but a 90% win rate when that clown referees the game raises some eyebrows. Yes 1 or 4 calls maybe but this game was highly suspicious. Dukes played their behinds off. Duq 102 you have no clue of what you are talking about!!! Referees do not get evaluated then moved up. They go to camps that they have to pay for and they are very costly ! The camp is run by the assigner of that conference. There is a pecking order. WHO has been to the most camps of that assigner gets to referee in that conference. Duq 102 most of the teams you listed stink!! There was no way for the referees to help the higher conference team in those games. I have been involved in refereeing for thirty years, I have recommended referees to go to the college game, I myself could not because I wanted to see my children play of which three played in college and I myself got involved in refereeing late because I played competitively until 30 years old. I have been a high school referee assigner for 20 years. If you don’t think there are cheaters out there, then you are to naive to respond to. I myself think there are a lot of crybabies on th his board blaming referees, this is the first time I have written about them getting cheated, AND THEY DID !!!!!!! Last edited by Wildwood13 (11/24/2023 4:09 pm) The way I see it we played a pretty solid Nebraska team on the road and played toe to toe despite the bias calls in the first half. Kareem was awesome and was the answer when Nebraska made their runs. It was apparent to me that beginning the second half the decision was made by the refs to target him and he pick up two bullshit calls in less than two minutes of play. This gave Kareem 4 fouls and forced him to the bench. Anyone who doubts that these were bullshit calls needs to watch the replay. These were followed by a series of "questionable" calls. This swung the momentum to where Nebraska either scored or shooting free throws. The Dukes made a run late when both Kareem were back on the court together. Jimmy Clark was unstoppable, and the only answer to insure their win was for the ref to foul him out. The officiating in this game was at best a biased epic home job, and at worst crooked and corrupt.
CONGRATULATIONS COACH DRU JOYCE III
Offline
Re: Game Thread - University of Nebraska Cornhuskers
phil95 wrote:
Keeping such a conspiracy, involving hundreds, if not thousands of participants quiet over the course of decades seems an impossibility.
Are you guys telling me that the NCAA would risk the public relations nightmare & possible prosecution so that Nebraska wins a November game against a nearly insignificant mid-major team?
I see very bad officiating by a whole crew rather than nationwide plot.
Nebraska got close to shooting 50/40/90, had 18 assists, & 2 turnovers. Perhaps those were also factors that lead to their victory.
Offline
Re: Game Thread - University of Nebraska Cornhuskers
levon1975 wrote:
Offline
Re: Game Thread - University of Nebraska Cornhuskers
Offline
Re: Game Thread - University of Nebraska Cornhuskers
Offline
Re: Game Thread - University of Nebraska Cornhuskers
phil95 wrote:
Keeping such a conspiracy, involving hundreds, if not thousands of participants quiet over the course of decades seems an impossibility.
Are you guys telling me that the NCAA would risk the public relations nightmare & possible prosecution so that Nebraska wins a November game against a nearly insignificant mid-major team?
I see very bad officiating by a whole crew rather than nationwide plot.
Nebraska got close to shooting 50/40/90, had 18 assists, & 2 turnovers. Perhaps those were also factors that lead to their victory.
Offline
Re: Game Thread - University of Nebraska Cornhuskers
applecorps wrote:
Offline
Re: Game Thread - University of Nebraska Cornhuskers
phil95 wrote:
Keeping such a conspiracy, involving hundreds, if not thousands of participants quiet over the course of decades seems an impossibility.
Are you guys telling me that the NCAA would risk the public relations nightmare & possible prosecution so that Nebraska wins a November game against a nearly insignificant mid-major team?
I see very bad officiating by a whole crew rather than nationwide plot.
Nebraska got close to shooting 50/40/90, had 18 assists, & 2 turnovers. Perhaps those were also factors that lead to their victory.
Offline
Re: Game Thread - University of Nebraska Cornhuskers
Neither you nor anybody else has any proof that the calls are, "usually bad against the lower conferences way".Wildwood13 wrote:phil95 wrote:
Keeping such a conspiracy, involving hundreds, if not thousands of participants quiet over the course of decades seems an impossibility.
Are you guys telling me that the NCAA would risk the public relations nightmare & possible prosecution so that Nebraska wins a November game against a nearly insignificant mid-major team?
I see very bad officiating by a whole crew rather than nationwide plot.
Nebraska got close to shooting 50/40/90, had 18 assists, & 2 turnovers. Perhaps those were also factors that lead to their victory.
Offline
Re: Game Thread - University of Nebraska Cornhuskers
My point is that the NCAA didn't pay off the refs so that Nebraska & the Big 10 would look good.Styles1229 wrote:phil95 wrote:
Keeping such a conspiracy, involving hundreds, if not thousands of participants quiet over the course of decades seems an impossibility.
Are you guys telling me that the NCAA would risk the public relations nightmare & possible prosecution so that Nebraska wins a November game against a nearly insignificant mid-major team?
I see very bad officiating by a whole crew rather than nationwide plot.
Nebraska got close to shooting 50/40/90, had 18 assists, & 2 turnovers. Perhaps those were also factors that lead to their victory.
Offline
Re: Game Thread - University of Nebraska Cornhuskers
Offline
Re: Game Thread - University of Nebraska Cornhuskers
Offline
Re: Game Thread - University of Nebraska Cornhuskers
phil95 wrote:
My point is that the NCAA didn't pay off the refs so that Nebraska & the Big 10 would look good.Styles1229 wrote:phil95 wrote:
Keeping such a conspiracy, involving hundreds, if not thousands of participants quiet over the course of decades seems an impossibility.
Are you guys telling me that the NCAA would risk the public relations nightmare & possible prosecution so that Nebraska wins a November game against a nearly insignificant mid-major team?
I see very bad officiating by a whole crew rather than nationwide plot.
Nebraska got close to shooting 50/40/90, had 18 assists, & 2 turnovers. Perhaps those were also factors that lead to their victory.
Offline
Re: Game Thread - University of Nebraska Cornhuskers
-The referees were the Worst I have seen in years
-I don’t think they liked the DU players for whatever reason
-The Dukes played well for 85% of the game
-85% isn’t good enough
-Again, vs. a good team, like Princeton, they lost. They still aren’t NCAA material. Will they get there? Time will tell.
-One of my basketball wishes was that they become competitive. They have. But this isn’t horseshoes and I’m over them being praised often for how well they played when they lost.
Offline
Re: Game Thread - University of Nebraska Cornhuskers
DuqLaw95 wrote:
That's your take-away from that game?
Offline
Re: Game Thread - University of Nebraska Cornhuskers
Offline
Re: Game Thread - University of Nebraska Cornhuskers
Offline
Re: Game Thread - University of Nebraska Cornhuskers
DuqLaw95 wrote: •
Thread Starter
Offline
Re: Game Thread - University of Nebraska Cornhuskers
PhoenixRising2 wrote:DuqLaw95 wrote:
Offline
Re: Game Thread - University of Nebraska Cornhuskers
Is it the referees fault that Jimmy Clark and Dixon are completely undisciplined, and continue to take huge aggressive risks or be left on the floor when they have a lot of fouls? Clark does this literally every game, it’s always the officials or does he have some culpability?
How does he not understand that reaching in super aggressively for your 4th or 5th steal is not worth it when the trade off if you don’t execute something on a razor thin margin is him sitting in the bench for 10 minutes in the first or getting 4 fouls 8 minutes into the second half? It is infuriating because he is literally good at every aspect of the game, and is so important to what this team could be, maybe just don’t try to reach in and steal on EVERY SINGLE POSSESION.
It’s the same logic to me to say, hey Micah Mason, your one of the best shooters in college history and maybe the best we’ve ever had at this program, feel free to jack up a three anywhere and everywhere as soon as you cross half court. It’s not a winning formula.
I am not with all the whining and crying. In classic Dambrot Dukes fashion against a good opponent, we get out to a hot start and look good. Then we eventually cooled off and it got closer. Then we get in foul trouble and our depth can’t keep up with them and they start pulling away. Starters go back in but not enough to come back. You could also really see the difference in strength, athleticism, and physicality between us and a power 5 team tonight in my opinion.
Despite all of my negativity, I do think this team is good enough to win the league and league tourney. Hopefully decision making improves as the year goes on, Clark has absolutely hamstrung us so far. I remember in one of the earlier games Tim Benz mentioned Dambrot had said in an interview that Clark had become so much better offensively but his defensive performances and output are what will get him pro looks. He obviously told Clark this as he continues to play with reckless abandon in an effort to produce defensive numbers and it is hurting us. Hoping he can start playing within the team concept from that perspective.
Offline
Re: Game Thread - University of Nebraska Cornhuskers
Give me a break, we got hot, came back to earth, made bad decisions, gave away the lead, and eventually the trailing margin grew and that was that. If we played as well as we did to start, we would have won that game even if 3 Nebraska alums were refereeing.
We build leads on unsustainably good shooting from 2-3 guys against good teams and once those guys cool off, games get tight, has happened a good bit. Clark and Rozier get too aggressive defensively and get in foul trouble. Especially for Clark, it’s almost every game.
This team also has no clue how to settle down and play half court offense with a lead. All the screening and ball movement is helter skelter and geared to find those 2 or 3 guys on the perimeter, or triggering fast breaks off of turnovers and rebounds. Once they get a lead doing this, shooting cools off and the over aggressive defense leads to foul trouble. There only ever seems to be one plan and the good teams have been able to adjust and deal with this time and again in the Dambrot era. It’s frustrating but to improve I think it is important to recognize the actual internal issues rather than saying some ref who’s never heard of Duquesne wanted them to lose the other day.
Someone also mentioned refs getting a higher fee to ref a power 5 game. Do you know how those guys ascend to the level of being offered the chance to officiate a power 5 game??? They are routinely assessed and evaluated, and the best of the bunch get offered that chance. It’s not like they get the chance by meeting the Nebraska AD in a dark smoky bar and get handed an envelope full of cash. The level of mental gymnastics happening to come up with reasons to blame someone besides the coach or team is comical to me.
Offline
Re: Game Thread - University of Nebraska Cornhuskers
Offline
Re: Game Thread - University of Nebraska Cornhuskers
ACC
Chattanooga 81 Louisville 71 @ Louisville
U Mass Lowell 74 Georgia Tech 71 @ G Tech
Western Carolina 71 Notre Dame 61 @ ND
Colorado State 86 Boston College 74 Neutral site (likely P5 refs)
Loyola Chicago 71 Boston College 68 Neutral site (likely P5 refs)
Big Ten
Davidson 64 Maryland 61 Neutral
UAB 66 Maryland 63 Neutral
James Maddison 79 Michigan State 76 @ MI State
Long Beach State 94 Michigan 86 @ Michigan
Big 12
Monmouth 73 WVU 65 @ WVU
Abilene Christian 64 Oklahoma State 59 @ OK State
St. Bonnies 66 Oklahoma State 64 Neutral site (likely P5 refs)
Pac 12
Pacific 87 Cal 79 @ Cal
Montana State 63 Cal 60 @ Cal
Santa Clare 89 Stanford 77 @ Stanford
Nevada 83 Washington 76 @ Washington
San Diego State 100 Washington 97 Neutral
SEC
Presbyterian 68 Vanderbilt 62 @ Vandy
Nicholls State 68 LSU 66 @ LSU
Dayton 70 LSU 67 Neutral
Jackson State 73 Mizzou 72 @ Mizzou
UNC Greensboro 78 #14 Arkansas 72 @ Arkansas
Big Ten officials are going to let Michigan and Michigan State lose at home but not Nebraska???
Offline
Re: Game Thread - University of Nebraska Cornhuskers
Offline
Re: Game Thread - University of Nebraska Cornhuskers
Offline
Re: Game Thread - University of Nebraska Cornhuskers
